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\ Speech for the Constitutionand the Laws.pie of all the States to reoognize the decision when it is made. Is that unreasonable?BiOMISSION TO TlliDICTATION OF TBAITOES.Is that unjust ?Sir, I did not mean to be drawn into a discussion of the qaestion whether it isseven of them; it is said that several other States, “ like a man to double purpose” whether theyIwise or unwise that slavery should beltcmarks of Horn, the United Rtatc and 25, 1861.rimothy O. Howe, In a Senate, March 22mitted to go into the Territories.Ron61!CONCLUDE!*.r. Clingman. Will the honorable dor allow me, if it will not throw himhe Ud© of his argument, to ask him aI T '71 Sllquestion is not pending before the peopleof the United States; it is not peuding before this body. The question, if any qaestion be here, is, whether you will submit to the authority of the people of the United States on that and other matters?bound, stand in pause shall go or stay; whether they shall abide with us, or join their fortunes with those of the Confederate States ; and they say that unless we give them new guaranties of some sort, they will go, and will not stay. What guaranties can we give them, except the faith of the people of the United States, plighted to them by the mosti of contract that man hasiJtcctisolemn fonn ever devised ?1You have got that already.gi6NJr# Howe.I have no lineoff ilt;Certainiy.I cannot be thrown out ofAdmit, if you please, that it be wise that slavery should go there; that it be just that a citizen of North Carolina shouldSuppose yoa go; what will you have torely* upon but the faith of the people ofthe Confederate States ? Are they wiser,(Ihave the right to take that class of property there when he sees tit to go himself;g6lt;Mr.ULIXlt;1 IVAVOirabled an, If it be true tbat it beStatesira testedI. * *Ithe Territories for theparty to monopolizeuse of the Freethe qaestion 1 propound to the Senators on the other side is this: because they are, or are not, permitted to do that thing, is that a reason why they should not contribute to the revenues of the United?MatesMr. Howe. A very good question. Allow me to answer it in the way I was brought up to answer questions in New England, by asking another. What is thece that we have shown any extremeStates, which revenues are to be expendedBecause a citizen ofoonIf the honorable Sena-6V]i*cuanxiety ?Mr. Clingman.tor will allow me, in the first place, the Chicago platform and the declarations ofg men of the party, I think,with-xeeption, are, that they intend thatbe kept for freedom,for their protection ?North Carolina is not allowed to takeslaves into Kansas, is that a reason whyyour forts must be surendered ; why your troops must be driven back; why your Treasury shall be plundered; why yourtiag shall be trailed ia the dust ? This is the question I put to the Senate. Letthat be answered.are they juster, are they more magnanimous, than the people of the United States? Do you believe it? Would you feel safer there? I have not learned to believe that; and especially, if I could believe that those people were fairly represented by the men who conduct theirpublic affairs.Sir, you have seen your treasures, thetreasures which belong to the UnitedStates, taken possession of without coloror semblance of right. Is that the sort of«lt;lt;You have seen ajustioe you believe in.?battalion of armed men gather around a garrison—no, a fort of the United States occupied by one old man—and carry it byIs tbat the sort of magnanimitythe€. I *1bV' U wthe Territoriesas thev call it“ cl,a1that slavery shall be prohibited from therr.ideaoi extreme anxiety.rather an evidence of what we think ishan what we are determined shallAnd let me, by way ofLj, rnC i L JTbat does not realize rayIt would beproperbeall events.1r to tl»Senator, remind himtwice andthcl asof1That we have seen once ande, every restriction in the way of thisbor or of people going into the i completely thrown down ; andseen, I think, what is worse thanI th‘mk we have seen actually theronaee of this GovernmentMr. Clingman. I understand the Senator to ask, supposing the people of North Carolina have a right to go there with their slaves, it they are deprived of it,why should they not still continue to pay taxes ? I take it for granted that if yon deprive any portion of the community of their privileges under the Constitution, you have no right to impose burdens onthem.storm.you think becoming a generous people ?— You have seen a soldier of high rank, ed-Mr. Howe. Did the Senator say he understood me to say that the people of North Carolina had that right ?Mr. Clingman. No—I understood thencated and supported by the people of the United States, raised to the rank, I think,of a brigadier, put in possession of an irncommand, placed in custodyportantof valuable property, surrender it all to a jurisdiction which had no control over it, to which he was in no manner responsi-rihathi 1r andrAftTvA virs(Ahiswhich be*Senator to put it hypothetically. Suppose the people have a right to go there withtheir slaves, is that any reason why theyThat is what I unlooses to the people of*v o * *d to impose tl? i1 1loveu1 ' II1 Lilt?to thLiGovernmentthe United States— is very class of la-Territories which belongedUnited Spates: andOf course,hwik VOgr*:iety.jed tat—wle Ot . y.. ^ yot hbown any very extreme'----- cnmit• wt* haven e navie government which 1 it be parliamentary to callwedid thatshould not pay taxes ? derstand the Senator to say.| if they have no right, the depriving of them of it would be no wrong; but I understood the Senator to say, supposing they had the right to go there, nevertheless, if they were deprived of it, was that a reason why they should not pay taxe- ?And my object was to bring the Senatorto the consideration of this point: thatble, and actually lay the tiag of his country at the leet of ,an enemy of his country. Is that the sort of fidelity to whichrepresentatives of the States south of ua,either on the Gulf or the borders, think itwould be safe, peculiarly safe toI dointrustnotthe rights of their citizens ?I must be excused for saying Ithink so.would rather put my trust in the judgment and in the justice of the people of the United States ; and whatever be yourlairr?We have notraUejfthe 9tand- have “lt; ri«bt to tx^‘ tlie Peofjle °‘ii Viliam, I lt;■ e I - g t to taxes to support theGov-ard of rebellion, no treason lias itMljM I trmueut, unless -- *==- —-that portion of the country j , A ’ted to this Dolicv. NVhat thentheaoroauwhich c is the einGovernmentIgivesthem full protection. I mean by that,protection as, under the Constitu„ cieo 10 tins policy. -isnchtence of our ®xtreme a?xlJ j tion, it can give to them and their prop-\Ve do believe tbat it is imp/oper, inexpe- ’ * 1 *dieot and impolitic.cause of complaint, therefore, lay it before them ; take their response to it; but beware of one great, fatal bluuder; if their judgments are convinced, they will grantrelief; but until you can convince theirjudgments, do Dot, for God's sake and foryour sakes, undertake to subdue their wills. You do not rightly comprehend, Ifear, what the people of the United States■ *Will the Senator allowMr. IIowk. Mr. President, the SenatorII2€f/Af€ tlcsof the Chicago plat*l.T*a * •Certainly, sir.n. I cite that as some evi-deneOIt tinUnitVJliw ■titourr e?' d u d i lCc1 r f o441 AOw * — — % 1ery in aui i i„ *€ JJAnerAOli sr114 v VI 1projertj, wit-X _ __ A.. •—houtourclutv. byleriii 1 CItnt lt;1nditioa of all tbo territorym that of freedom* that as ,when they had abolished ! gpectftu whennal t^rntorr. ordained that j But DuW } wjdeprived of life, liberty, or { , . . wnf lair.’ it Wnmii I bfiDtOP DHJQ96IL.did not understand precisely the hypothesis which I presented. It was, supposing it to be expedient that he takes his slaves into the Territories and that expediencyis not recognized by the people of theuited States, shall the standard of rebel-ion be raised on the occasion, and be re-is raised ? That is it.But now I will put the hypothesis of theSuppose it be a right onOfi iiej t(Ihiecit t iew'i! *■fit aillority0* of IDry ia. J.I D tat tecof CliTidien of law/ it becomeswhenever such legislation | the part of the citizens of North Carolinaillf.' j th*'’1* take his 'f™ \heK' a.nd ,hat ri«htof a Territorial | be temporarily denied; is it true thati, to legal exist- j everv iudividaal right, suspended, tempor-rrttory of tae United , vvith, delayed, not instantly recogniz-are composed of.Sir, the Senator from Kentucky [Mr.Breckinridge] indulged, the other day, in most gratifying reflections, lie turned us all back to the period when tlie citizens ot his own State fought the battles of our common country upon the plains of the Northwest. We have not forgotten that passage in our history —not a word of if, not a syllable of it. That blood is all gathered np there, and is still circulating there. We caonot oarry back those boms which he told us, were bleaching there, but we can tell him this: that if ever aforeigu enemy, or a domestic enemy, assail the peace, or assault the honor ot the State of Kentucky, we will bring our ownSir, 1n adlt;iniU I-A1Hitn«'w* ‘aamgted ag the Terr lories,have doit the exi t i. ed, that that shall be a caase of civil war,that, 1 know tliat V,Je tbat that eball be an occasion for over-dparty nave steadilynon of slavery into me of them evenredtlUnion the dhUXJ illthey would allow theHilved befoie they wouldthrowing a Government which has stood so long as this, and has achieved the dignity that this has? You have read a Deoia ration of Independence which was forth less than a hundred years ago, byputbones there and pay him in kind, fear we do not remember that the people of the United States have gathered within them the blood which freedom has shed upon all her battle fields, lrom Marathon to Yorktown. Do not try to subdue them. Slow to a controversy, they are difficult to give it up. They have not forgotten how to die; they never knew how to surrender.y to go into tae Territories j wh0 knew’ what revolution meant.which are now free. I might quote manyspeeches to that effect.Mr. Howe. Mr. President, I beg leavetlt;Rannhre, as a ican par i toAatter of right, that to which I confess to 1You know whut causes they assigned to fin intelligent world to justify their act. I Read it again. I ask the Senate, I ask the« oi (itV H 11 ’ i pflj aLtavilCVA|Senator, to read it again, and then com. . . T . pare it with any ordinance of indepcn- principles I am sin- j lt;jence ^kich he has yet seen put forth by* 3X *GIVr6prieseotativesAluQBiIs may delt;be judged by what | ftQy gtat6 80Dth of the city of Washingtony, and not what in- i jn'wkjck we stand, and then let him state are oere, there, or else- t0 whether he thinks that theTr... 4, . ,, a \ denial of such a right as this, in the esti-lu k^morable . en- j mat^ tjj6 wor](3 is a cause for civil war,acL him tha - . . %where* Mr. CI or war of any kind..INGMAN.ator allow me toi’resident and the Secretary of State are i j wfts a^ont to say, some time ago,not 1 iir representai.ves of his party, and wken j was led into this dialogue, suppose ther they have not both in the strongest terms declared against ry to go into the Territories?TJpW1110 Oi1(uMr. Howe. Undoubtedly ; and I begor not to misapprehend me any 0„. I am not advocating or assentingthe policy, tlA •there be technical right on the part of thepermitting cjtjzen Kentucky to take this propertyof his into the Territory of Nevada; and suppose that right be denied by the Government of t‘e country, what does theI soppose the citizen ofC CAiency of allowingslaUcmright amount to ?4 .. rr .. . f I New York ought to have the right, if Lery to go into tlie ierruories ot the i ch008eg to take floor iuto the State of(^° r0 rfcJnember a 11 j Wisconsin. But suppose the right be de-whet; have ever e?n wiiliDg to assent lt;(]0 y0U think New York would setto it myself. I do not anticipate a time ; Q standard of rebellion because of it?Wiien I shaa be willing to assent to 11 ; ^jjen floari9 worth six dollars a barrel innor do I anticipate any contingency whichIwill makee assent to it; but whether it11 not go into the territories ofsnail or sthe United States, I say, and we say, is a ion which should be submitted to I f eople of the United States. As 1— Iatae pNew York, it is worth five dollars in Wisconsin ; and it is not reaily right s'j sacred or so essential as I think would authorize the Empire State to plunge into civil war if it were denied. Is the right to take slaves into a Territory more lm-lt;when the people of the L Dited Siates have j porjan^ tpe people of Kentucky? Is over and over j gUpp08e a good farm hand in the State ofdecided againstheretofore, we have submitted, so if thes shall decide against them hereaf- }IfVVlter, we ask and demand that they shallsubmitKentucky is worth $1,000 or $1,200. Take him into the Territory of Nevada, and be is not worth his board and cloth-1iiIHiMr. Clingman. I wish to see if I understand the honorable Senator. By uthe people of the United States,” what does he mean ? Does he mean the people of the territories, who have an interest in it Is he willing to adopt the popular sove-jw of the Senator from Illinois? i mean that the people of NorthCarolina or Massachusetts, for example,ing. Why do they wish to preserve a right at the hazard of war which can only be carried on by the sacrifice of all value? And I want Senators to say here if that is! a right to inforce which the peace and ( the prosperity of all these States mu3t berr uy *.a I.* -sput in jeopardy ?Sir, we do not propose then to subjugateto maketJetermine what New Mexico is todo with thiMr. IIowe.StfiTuestion.Mr. President, I did notppose there should be any mistake about e identity of the people of the UnitedThere never has been until with-iD a lew months. [Laughter.] But let me answer him more directly. I am not ling that the people of North Carolina 11 say whether slavery shall or shall not it in the Territory of Nevada. He asks me, am I wiiliDg that the people of the Territory of Nevada shall determine that ion for themselves? No, sir- for ilain reason, the people of the T’erri-j any State, nor to maKe war upon any State. That has been announced by the ! higheat authority we have, and I believe ; by the most credible authority we have. Let it be believed ; let it be believed south1lt;ilt;(I]and north of this place; and if aDy men,injudicious, unthinking, unreading, suspicious men, see fit to doubt it, then I askthe Senator from Illinois to unite with uslt;1*1kj TTV Aherethtorv of Nevada do not own the Territoryin showing to every portion of the coontry that no such design exists or will b3 executed, and say to them at the sametime, that while we do not propose tomake war, we do not propose that war sball be made upon us. That, I thiuk, will do something to pacify the country.Mr. President, I never saved the coun-tevada.WellMr. Clingman.Ir. Howe. Let me finish the answer.le of theAllihe ltvhave as moclnited States own it; i confidence in their11i;nee, and ia their justice, and in► Iapacity to determine that question, ir lt;is I have in the people of any one of the rerritories: and I think it is the better Lribtmal of the two, because they have the R—- the heaviest, and the more direct ist in the right decision ot the ques-try in my life, but 1 really believe I know how this country might be saved. I say it is not by dissolving the Union, but by supporting it. It is not by abjuring the Constitution, but by taking last hold of it.That Constitution, ir, is the grand old ark which our fathers launched upon threatening floods, and freighted with the hopesThe Senator says the I U1086 identical hopes will be intrusted nototinter tion.Mr. Clingman. people ot North Carolina have no right to 1letermine it. What better right, then, | 0Dehave the people of his State or of any her State ?Mr. Howe. Not any better, but pre- * meD-_ely the same. The people of North Carolina and the people ot the thirty-1 complain of j three other States, constitute exactly the tribunal that I want to submit this ques-to—the tribunal to whose decision I want the people of all these States to submit. I beg the Senator not to understand tliat I want to monopolize the decision of this question for the people of Wisconsin, which 1 in part represent here; that I want to usurp jurisdiction over it on behalf of the people of any one section of:he country. I want it to be submit-:ed to the intelligence, the wisdom,:he patriotism, and the justice of the people of all the States; and then 1 wantdie patriotism and the loyalty of the peo -of au uprisen world. Jf you scuttle that ark, those hopes will be scattered, to be gathered again ; but when, or upon what strange shore, we do not know. We know they will be gathered again, and again.1lt;1ii!I.to a better ship—yoa cannot fiod a better -it has not been constructed, and isnot likely to be; but intrusted, we hope,to wiser captains and to more faithful sea-Does any man, or any class of men,triitM withheld?Is jasticedenied to any folate or to any section ? Let tboe individuals or that class, let thatiii:tionState or that section, go bravely to the people of the United States for redress,and not to the people of any one State. Are you the victim of a private wroDg ?DoTheir courts are open to your relief, you wish a new policy adopted, or an old one chDged? Their Legislature is open to hear you ; and, if your cause is just, no doubt they will answer.Sir, do you know any people wiser orof the United■juster than the people States ? We hear a great deal said aboutj the Confederate States; it is said there areI
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Madison Wisconsin State Journal
Madison, Wisconsin, US
Thu, Apr 11, 1861
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