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Lethbridge Herald, The (Newspaper) - September 30, 1970, Lethbridge, Alberta 4 THE LETHBRIDGE HERALD Wednesday, September 30, 1970 Peter Neivinau Interview With J. K. Galbraith: Part 2 No Doomsday Dr. Gordon Shrum, chairman of British Columbia Hydro and Power Authority, does not believe doomsday is m the offing. He says the gloomy prophets will still be around in 20 or 30 years to enjoy the profits on their pollution publications. This prediction has an obvious flaw. There are so many books being published on pollution that it is not likely any of the authors will enjoy significant profits. No doubt Dr. Shrum is right in complaining that there are too many unqualified people making pronounce- ments about pollution. Even highly qualified people are sometimes in error. An apparently unfounded scare emanating from a scientific source was that the supply of oxygen might run out. No such danger exists, it has been discovered. Unfortunately most of the errors in connection with pollution have been on the optimistic rather than the pessimistic side. The confidence that nature could cope with anything and everything that man might do is still keeping some people from taking the matter of pollution seriously. There is an uncomfortable similar- ity between Dr. Shrum's scoffing at anti-pollutionists and the pooh- poohing of Rachel Carson's warnings about some pesticides and herbicides. In view of how much closer to the truth she was than her detractors, many people will not be comforted by Dr. Shram. Doomsday may not be in 30 years or ever but the environment has already sadly deteriorated in many ways. No reasonable person wants to have it get worse. Temper- ed talk about doomsday is perhaps desirable but slackening of effort to lessen pollution is not. Ky Backs Down South Vietnam's Vice President Nguyen Cao Ky's decision not to ad- dress the "March for Victory" peo- ple in Washington will result in sighs of relief for officials in the Nixon ad- ministration. His presence at that rally seemed likely to aggravate the division in the U.S. even more. There is undoubtedly a substan- tial body of opinion in the U.S. in support of the "win-the-war" senti- ment, represented by the Rev. Carl Mclntire. But the fact is that for many months the percentage of sym- pathizers for that position has steadi- ly been declining. It would take something more than this rally to persuade the deserters of the posi- tion to rejoin. It might seem, then, that little harm could come from the visit of Marshal Ky. The official policy of Vietnamization resulting in phasing out the American presence in Viet- nam is not apt to be endangered. But there could be nasty incidents at the rally which could do great harm to the U.S. internally and externally. If Marshal Ky had insisted on ad- dressing the rally, no official order forbidding him to speak would have been given. Contradicting views are still being heard in the U.S. But that does not mean that representations were not made to Marshal Ky about the lack of wisdom and propriety in making the address. Someone or something got through to him and Marshal Ky has backed down. The rally will take place but without its star performer. Nothing of consequence is now apt to issue from the rally. The Faces Of Marxism The recent election in Chile result- Ing in victory for Dr. Salvadorc Al- lende, a Marxist, caused scarcely a ripple of concern among West e r n democracies and it wasn't entirely because more worrying events were taking place elsewhere. Sixteen years ago when U.S. politi- cians looked for Communists under every bush, the prospect of a Marx- ist regime in Latin America would have been viewed with consternation. At that time eveiy Communist-ruled nation was thought to be hydra-head- ed, determined to force its views on its neighbors. Now it is generally rec- ognized that Marxism has as many different faces as the political par- ties in the West do. Its appearance depends on the circumstances pre- vailing in the nations which give it birth, much as a child's features de- pend on those of its parents. Fears that all Communist countries would gang together to menace the demo- cracies of the West have almost van- ished. If Chileans believe that they will prosper better and faster under com- munism than under a free enterprise system, it is their concern. They will find out sooner or later that com- munism and prosperity seldom go hand in hand. The main interest of the U.S. authorities in the new Chil- ean government, is what its poU'cy will be in regard to the large U.S. investment there and whether Dr. Allende's external relationships will be Moscow or Peking oriented. The ideological fight is fading into limbo. The line-up is the thing we watch. The battle is with the balance of pow- er and the devil take the hindmost. U Art Buchwald E. i WASHINGTON The Communist Party is having a rough time in the United States these days. No one is paying any attention to it any more, and it is probably in the worst shape it has ever been in, in this country. A Communist friend of mine was practi- cally in tears as he told me how the party was falling apart. "We're not a menace any he said. "And everyone is ignoring us. Red-baiting has gone out of style. It's disgusting." "How do you explain I asked. "No one can get any mileage out of at- tacking Communists in the United States any more. Student baiting is the big thing now. The Red-hunters are spending all their time attacking students and professors and administrators. Nobody gives a damn what we do. We haven't been able to get in tho newspapers in months." "That's I said. "I remember dur- ing a political year when everyone was ac- cusing everyone else of being a Commie or a Commie dupe. What did you people do "We did notliing wrong. The Red-hunters discovered that people were more afraid ol their own children than they were of the Communist Parly. "Vice-President Agncw hasn't mentioned one Communist threat since he's been mi his SlOO-a-pIate lecture circuit. As far as he's concerned, the biggest enemy to the United Slates is not Karl Marx but Dr. ijpock." "Has this had any effect on your mem- f asked him. "1 hope to tell you it has. Half our mem- bership was made up of FBI undercover agents, Ws depended on them for all our financial aid as they were the only ones who paid their dues. Now they're leaving in droves to enrol at colleges and univer- sities. Our cells are down to nothing." "You would think the FBI undercover agents would have some loyally to the party after all these I said. "The other day an FBI undercover agent, a nice fellow whom we all liked, came in and said he had been ordered to resign, as he had been reassigned to the freshman class at NYU. I begged him to stay, but he said it wasn't his decision. Communists just didn't mean anything as far as J. Edgar Hoover was concerned. The Reader's Digest won't even buy articles from him on us any more." "Maybe you could get Congress to inves- tigate you as they did in the good old I said. "It's hopeless. The internal security sub- committees are only interested in he said. "It's impossible to explain to Mos- cow thai nobody cares what we do." "Why couldn't you get the students in- terested in Ihe I suggested. "Surely you could get some attention if the student unrest was thought to be a Communist con- spiracy." "We tried, but the students won't havo anything do witli us. 'I hey think wc'ro as old-hat as Iho Republican and Demo- cratic Parlies.1' "It's a crying I said. "We thought maybe when Nixon became President we'd get a break, uecause in his day he was one of the great Communisl- Imnlcrs in lliis country. Bui he hasn'l men- tioned us since he's been in office. It wouldn't have hurt us to call us after all we did lor his career." (Toronto Telegram News Service) JOHN Kenneth Galbraith, the Canadian bom Har- vard economist who has be-, come one o[ the most influen- tial thinkers in the mode r n world, hero discusses some of his ideas with Peter C. New- man, Editor-in-Chief of the Tor- onto Daily Star. NEWMAN: What is your opinion of Pierre Elliott Tiii- deau? GALBRAITH: I suppose he is in the best tradition of Cana- dian liberalism, which consists in having an open mind On the whole range of legislative pos- sibilities, and on a variety of things having to do with per- sonality and individual behavior but that he is a good deal less stuffy Ihan his predecessors. I've always thought that Ihe basic tradition of Canadian lib- eralism was to be opsn mind- ed on economic matters and somewhat limited on the ques- tions of public morals. That Trudcau has, for the first lime, opened the window on ques- tions cf personal behavior, is most encouraging. I suppose it was inevitable that these is- sues, having to do with civil rights, drugs and so forth should be brought out into the open by a French Canadian politician, rather Ihan one steeped more in the conserva- tive Scotch Presbyterian tra- dition. N'SWMAN: I've always thought of the Canadian politi- cal tradition ns a mixture of pragmatism and Manchester liberalism. GALBRAITH: Yes. Pragma- tism, Manchester liberal i s m, plus some of Ihe inhibitions of old-fashioned Protestantism. NEWMAN: You have written that ownership1 is no longer the dominant factor in big business, "Well-he'll probably some of OUR customs peculiar, too, comrade Dave Humphreys Decision Could Backfire T ONDON: The political hon- eymocn ended abrupt.'y for Reginald Handling when he re- fused to allow the German radi- cal Budi Dutschke Lo sludy at Cambridge. Mr. Maudling, has always been considered an easy going, pleasant, liberal Conser- vative. And his appointment as home secretary in the Heath government was widely ap- proved because, it was felt, he would bring reason and com- mon sense to such sensitive areas as immigration and law and order. But he has stirred the right- eous wrath of British liberals and leftists, by refusing to prof- fer celebrity treatment on Mr. Dutsc'hke. Mr. Dutschke has been convalescing under medi- cal care since he and his wife and family were allowed into the country temporarily two years ago. He was almost killed by gun- shot while leading a student demonstration on West Berlin's main boulevard April Jl, 19CB. Riots and demonstrations soon swept through West Berlin and other main cities. He was allow- ed into Britain on condition that he would refrain from political activities. There were no problems until he announced himself fit enough to undertake a three- year course of study in the his- tory of the Communist Revolu- tion after 1917. Cambridge had been considering his applica- tio> for months, finally decid- ing he would be a worthy stu- dent. But Mr. Handling decided otherwise. He was not willing to make a departure from the conditions set down by the La- bor government. "I he said, "it is wrong in principle that people who come to this country do so on the basis that they refrain from any activi- ties which are lawful for the or- dinary citizen. Nor do I think in practice that such a condi- tion could be enforced." This Maudling decision was "a miserable piece of inhuman- contrary to best liberal traditions in Britain, said Mi- chael's Foot, leader of Labor's left wing. "A dangerous prece- dent which threatens Britain's reputation as a refuge for the said the national council of civil liberties man. "An extraordinarly foolish de- said The Times. But the English liberal tradi- tion and two years of good be- havior arc meant to be reason enough for the background to be overlooked. If Mr. Maudling considered Mr. Dutschke a po- litical spark for combustible material at the universities, re- moving him may do more to set it on fire. Letter To The Editor Even before the Dutschke de- cision the students' union prom- ised action to protest the sen- tencing of the Cambridge stu- dents who took part in anti- Greek demonstration last Feb- ruary. "Serious problems can scarcely be avoided next the students said, and they should know. For them, the Diilschke case will be nothing more than a further manifestation of the il- liberal cracking down on stu- dents and they will react ac- cordingly. Mr. Maudling is not deporting nor taking any ar- bitrary action but following the agreement. He is simply not willing to grant extraordinary privileges to Mr. Dutschke. But in doing so he may well unleash more student trouble. (Herald London Bureau) Menace To Free Society In response to John MacKen- zie's florid effusion last Satur- day over my letter of 21 Sep- tember, dealing with hitch-hik- ers, may I make to our jury iurtlier submissions: 1. There was no suggestion in my letter of the effrontery of my making any judgment or decision: 2. A few points were sub- mitted for our jury to decide in that most worthy manner "without bias, objectively and therefore scientifically." 3. I would now suggest lo Iho jury that John MacKenzie's statements appear cleverly comical at first, but on further consideration, show lack of bal- ance and relativity, proving to be a somewhat infantile at- tempt at reductio ad absurdum. 4. If, afler the perusal of Ihe LOOKING BACKWARD THROUGH Till'] HERALD 1320 Teachers in Lclh- bridgc who arc members of the Alberta Teachers' Alliance arc contemplating a strike should Ihe school board not grant llicm a minimum wage of 200 a year. Al Ihe present time the minimum is S900. work will form a substantial parl of Ihe employ- to be provided this fall and winter under the tripartite relief olan being arranged by the federal, "rovincial and mu- nicipal governments. 1040-Canadn may export to the U.S. up to head of cattle during the last quarter of 19-10. the Dominion depart- ment of agriculture announced. 10.10 The post office clock lower is being given a new coat of paint and although the perch looks precarious to pe- destrians the painlcr claims it is just as safe as painting a ceiling at home. paralytic polio cases were reported in Alberta during the we ending Sept. 24, of them in Edmonton. There have been seven deaths from the disease Ibis year, records of many crimes, follow- ing the giving of lifts, the jury find this latter action accept- able and salutary, then it would seem reasonable lo decide lhat the AMA and legal authorities are in serious error. Should they find the opposite, they may then conclude that Wil- son's accusations ar.s gravely defamatory of our legal defend- ers and of the AMA. 5. The remarks implying sup- port of dangerous driving.are in fascinating contrast lo rc- cenl remarks made by Ihe rac- ing driver, Sliding Moss. Hos- pital records of resulting crip- pling, paralysis and death lend support to Ihe Slirling Moss condemn a I i o n of dangerous driving on the roads. Another submission is therefore made that preventive action by the police and our courts is not cid- pahlc but highly praiseworthy. 6. Should Wilson accept ex- perimentation as a human gui- nea pig lo disprove the present- ly most acceptable theory that marijuana is psychosigonic, having the polcnlialily lo pro- duce temporary or permanent insanity; should Wilson show no temporary or permanent insan- ity during or after tho experi- mentation, I would submit the suggestion that marijuana still needs further investigation to prove it not lo be an insidious poison of healthy minds, and a subtle and destructive menace lo our free sociely. C. Lcthbridge. but can this Ihosis bo main- tained in Canada's case, where the fact that most of our big business is American has meanl lhal we have developed as a kind ot adjunct lo American so- ciety? I guess I'm really ask- ing whether you believe there is a culliu'al dimension to econo- mic affairs. GALBRAITH: I suppose there is. But il seems lo me one has lo distinguish here between the inevitable and the negotiable. There are at least lliree fac- tors in lliis situation which are inevitable, yet Canadians asso- ciate them nol wilh inevitabil- ity but with Ihe United Slales. First of all, Ihere is an inevit- able uniformity in large econo- mic organizations which im- poses its cultural pattern on the country no matter where Ihe ultimate ownership is. General Motors which is American, In- ternational Nickel which is no- minally Canadian, Massey-Fer- guson which is Canadian, will all impose a somewhat similar production organization, simi- lar labor discipline, a similar ethos of efficiency, a similar subordination lo the goals of the common organization. And much of Ibis is altributed Lo the United Stales, but it really be- longs to the larger pattern of industrialism. S'econd, there is much that is associated with American cultural imperialism which is merely a part of a common preoccupation of ad- vanced industrial societies with goods. This tends to be as true of Canada as il is of Ihe Uniled States. And then, of course, the third inevitability is that Canada is close to the United States. There is the inescapable fact of proximity. I have always thought that, given all these constraints, rather than worry- ing about the additional influ- ence from General Motors in Oshawa being owned by Gen- eral Motors in New York and Ford in Windsor being owned in Detroit, this influence is rela- tively tiny and mccii more is to be gained by the strongest possible development of auton- omy in television programs, aut- onomy in book publishing and that healthy support should be given to the Canadian publish- ing industry to make sure that the educa t i o n a 1 system is s t r o n g 1 y supported. That's where real cultural autonomy lies. NEWMAN: How do you view the long term prospect for Cana d i a n independence? Do you think we can establish a cultural identification st r o n g enough to resist an economic takeover by the U.S.? GALBRAITH: Oh, certainly. Canada seems lo over empha- size the question of ownership. For the average Canadian the practical distinction whether he works for General Motors in Oshawa, the Canadian Pacific or Ihe Canadian National, lo lake three cases, amounts lo a hill of beans. One shouldn't try to create a distinction where it doesn't exist. On the other hand, I suppose there is a certain dis- tinction as between Canadian television which strikes me as very good, and CBS which strikes me as being, on the whole, rather lousy. NEWMAN: Now, let me turn to our economic prospects. In your book on the 1929 crash you made an important distinction between the stock market panic and the depression that follow- ed. You pointed out lhat the Wall Street collapse escalated into a depression mainly be- cause of the maldistribution of incomes that Ihen existed; the weak structures of many cor- porations; the existence of a poorly policed banking system; and the bad state of economic intelligence. Since none of these factors apply today, do you still foresee Ihe possibility of a ma- jor depression? GALBRAITH: I would cer- tainly hesitate to predict a de- pression like that of the Thir- ties. One can do something about it now, whereas at lhat lime there was a great theolo- gical restraint to intervene with the kind of fiscal and monetary policies which might have been remedial. The other accelerat- ing factors you mentioned are certainly less true at the pres- ent. What this all adds up to then, would be something like this: that now as then, we have un- derestimated Ihe importance of the slock market crash ns in changing expectations, In al- tering business invest m e n t plans, and particularly in alter- ing consumer spending. S'o that one can say there is a stronger depressive factor in Ihe kind of collapse we've had in the stock market this year Ihan was pre- viously anticipated. The other thing that's impor- tant is the situation in which the Nixon administration now finds itself. It has promised sta- ble prices and it has promised high employment and il can't deliver on both. It is caught in a situation where if it eases up on the budget and eases up on monetary policy, it invites a new round of inflation. This runs into its promise to work toward price stability. If it works toward price stability with Ihe measures it's going to employ, it accelerates the down- turn and accentuates liquidity crisis. So one can imagine out of that situation not a depres- sion, but a nasty continuing ex- ercise in mismanag e m e n t in which one has too much infla- tion and too much unemploy- ment. I think that's what we're likely lo have. The problem is purely one ol bolh political courage and politi- cal wisdom. And the Nixon ad- ministration lacks both. Also the Nixon administration is ter- ribly, terribly tied up in its own theology. Mr. Nixon's eco- nomists are drawn from the quintessence of the economic establish m e n I. The conse- quences of Iheir policies involve Ihe final admission lhat the old nco classical system doesn't work. Well, to them Ihis is like denying Ihe existence of the Holy Scripture. Dr. 'Paul Mc- Cracken, Arthur Burns and Nix- on's other economic advisers have to support neo classical economics, it's supported them all these years. It's unthinkable for them at this stage in life to have to concede that they are wrong. NEWMAN: How does this ap- ply to Canada? Because we're not an inflation generation na- tion we import much of our inflation. GALBRAITH: The problem ol Canada is certainly one that has been widely recognized. Canada can have a little more inflation than the United'States and a little less Ihan the Uni- ted States. But if there is infla- tion in the United Slales, Can- ada cannot have stable prices. The limits of Canadian econo- mic policy allow it to be a little belter or a little worse, but not perfect. NEWMAN: Is it possible that the stock market, rather than reflecting business trends, is re- flecting social trends? To many Canadians the United States seems to be a society out of control at the moment. GALBRAITH: The stock mar- ket does react to some extent to a malaise as regards lo politi- cal and social control. It react- ed adversely to an escalation in Vietnam for example, or the Cambodian insanity. But I think it would be a mistake to put it in terms quite like you did, be- cause the United States has been much under con- trol. What Churchill once called "the rugged liberties of the Uni- ted States" are in part an as- pect of non-control. They are merely more evident now than they were. The fact that the military have much too much power, the fact that Nixon seems unable to liquidate this- insanity in Vietnam, this is all true, but we do not have some- thing new, merely a crisis of recognition. NEWMAN: Do you still feel Canadian at all? GALBRAITH: Well, sure. I don't have any very strong na- tionalistic instincts. I was brought up in southwestern On- tario where we were taught that Canadian patriotism should not .withstand anything more than a wage differential. Anything more than lhat, and you went to Delroil. I've always said that one could have a moral and emo- tional affiliation with any num- ber of countries. I consider my- self as much a Canadian as an American. I've never thought any group more repre- hensible Ihan the Canadians who come to the United States and feel that they have to be more American than George Wallace in order lo prove a point. (Toronto Slar Syodicatc) Tlic Utlibridge Herald 5CH 7lh St. S., Lelhbridge, Alberta LETHBRIDGE HERALD CO. LTD., Proprietors and Published 1905 1954, by Hon. W. A. BUCHANAN Second Class Mall Reglslrallon No 0012 Member of The Canadian Press and Ihe Canadian Dally Newspawr Publishers' Association and Ihe Audit Bureau of Circulations CLEO W. MOWERS, Editor ind Publisher THOMAS H. ADAMS, General Manager JOE BALLA WILLIAM HAY Managing Editor Associate Editor HOY F. MILES DOUGLAS K. WALKER Advertising Manager Editorial Pagt Editor "THE HERALD SERVES THE SOUTH" ;