Page 2 of Mar 29 1884 Issue of Indianapolis Monroes Iron Clad Age in Indianapolis, Indiana

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Indianapolis Monroes Iron Clad Age (Newspaper) - March 29, 1884, Indianapolis, Indiana The Ibon age tie a Volute Sevi Jour times to Ord a ma.rc3e�z 29, 1884.the Iron Olad age. Indianapolis. Mabom 29, 1884. If we Are a free people i Etab Snart tie follow lev Rells Loami Freedom amen Anent to the consultation i states article i. 8x0.1. Neither Congress nor any state shall make and Law a expecting an of religion or Fli Toring any Paru Enlar form of religion or Prohl iti Ilg the free exercise thereof or permitting in any Denee a Union of Church and state or granting any a Aprl Timlege immunity or advantage to any sect or a Pous body or to any number of sects or re a Giozas bodies or taxing the people of any state Ltd j the support of any r number of sects or Freedom of speech dress of Titi evinces. A a 8bo. 2. No Rel Ous test shall Ever be req Redas a condition of Suffi or As a qualification to any of Ace or Public Trust in any state. No person shall met be deprived of any of Hiwot her rights or Lvi it Wor Caj Matlea or do a defied for the perform Anc Befany Public or private duty or rendered incompetent to give eld take in any court of Law or equity in Conse Quience of any opinions he or she May Nold on the subject of religion. No person shall Ever b6 required bar Law to contribute directly or indirectly to the Supert of any religious society nobody of which she or m la not a voluntary member. 01 Levy. Car gift Grant or appropriation for the support or in Aid of any Church Lel Gloub sect or denomination or any achoo Seminary or institution of learning in which the filth or doctrines of any religious order or a taught or inculcated or in which re Ilgi Otu rites shall be observed or for the support or in Aid of any religious Charity or purpose of any sect orderer denomination whatever. Sic. 4. Congress shall have Power to enforce the prions Providina of this article by appropriate leg it Lavoil. Jan. 8,105,-Sy insurers of a analysis of orthodox belief. On his Way West recently col. Ingersoll stopped at Detroit. He was there pumped by a reporter of the Detroit sunday times who gives the result As follows during the last month several clergymen have selected colonel Robert g. Ingersoll As the subject for various us courses. Or. Tal Mage upon his last lecture tour in the West directed much of his talk to criticism of the great agnostic. Yesterday evening i called upon colonel Ingersoll and had a Long talk about the criticisms made. The colonel was in one of his happiest moods. What was said was equal to any of his later Lect Les and As he has withdrawn for a time from the lecture Field the interview has therefore a special interest.1. Q. Do you intend lecturing any this Winter a. I am not certain. At present i have too much business to attend to and cannot in Justice to my clients leave the City. Q. I. See that the clergy Are still making All kinds of charges against you and your doctrines a. Yes sir. Some of the charges Are True and some Are not. I suppose that they intend to get in the Vicinity of veracity and Are probably stating my belief As it is honestly misunderstood by them. I admit that i have said and that i still think that christianity is a Blunder. But the question arises what is christianity i do not mean when i say that christianity is a Blunder that the morality taught by christians is a mistake. Morality is not distinctively Christian any More than it is Moham Medan. Morality is human it belongs to no ism and does not depend for a foundation upon the supernatural or upon any Book or upon any Creed. Morality is itself a foundation. When i say that christianity is a Blunder i mean All those things distinctively Christian Are blunders. It is a Blunder to say that an infinite being lived in Palestine Learned the Carpenter s Trade raised the dead cured the Blind and cast out devils and that this god was finally assassinated by the jews. This is absurd. All these statements Are blunders if not worse. I do not believe that Christ Ever claimed that he wrought miracles or that he would Rise from the dead. If he did he was mistaken honestly perhaps but still mistaken. The morality inculcated by Mohammed is Good. The immorality inculcated by Mohammed is bad. If Mohammed was a Prophet of god it does not make the morality he taught any better neither does it make the immorality any better nor any worse. By this time the whole world ought to know that morality does not need to go in partnership with miracles. Morality is based upon the experience of Mankind. It does not have to learn of inspired writers or of gods or divine Parsons. It is a lesson that the whole human race has been learning and learning from experience. He who upholds or believes in or teaches the Mir Culous commits a Blunder. is morality now what is morality morality is the Best thing to do under circumstances. Any thing that tends to the happiness of Mankind is moral. Anything that tends to unhappiness is immoral. We apply to the moral would rules and regulations As we do the physical world. Rhe Man who does Justice or tries to who is honest and kind and gives to others what he claims for himself is a moral Man. All actions must be judged by their consequences. Where the consequences Are Good the actions Are Good. Where the consequences Are bad the actions Are bad and All consequences Are Learned from experience. After we have had a certain amount of experience we then reason from analogy. We apply our logic and say that a certain course will bring destruction another course will bring happiness. There is nothing inspired about morality nothing supernatural. It is simply Good common sense going hand in hand with kindness. Morality is capable of being demonstrated. You do not have to take the word of anybody you can observe and examine for yourself. Larceny is the enemy of Industry and Industry is Good therefore larceny is immoral. The family is the unit of Good government anything that tends to destroy the family is immoral. Honesty is the Mother of Confidence it unites combines and solidifies society. Dishonesty is disintegration it destroys Confidence it brings social chaos it is therefore immoral. the mosaic account absurd. I also admit that i regard the mosaic account of creation As an Absurdity As a series of blunders. Probably Moses did the Best he could. He had never talked with Humboldt nor Laplace. He knew nothing of geology or astronomy. He had not the slightest suspicion of Kepler s three Laws. He never saw a copy of Newton s taking All these things into consideration i think Moses did the Best he could. The religious people say now that Quot Days Quot did not mean Days. Of these Quot six Days Quot they make a kind of Telescope which you can push in or draw out at pleasure. If the geologists find that More time was necessary they will stretch them out. Should it turn out that the world is not site As old As some think they will push them up. The Quot six Days Quot can now be made to suit any period of time. Nothing can be More childish frivolous or contradictory. Only a few years ago the mosaic account was considered True and Moses was regarded As a scientific authority. Geology and astronomy were measured by the mosaic Standard. The opposite is now True. The Church has changed and instead of trying to prove that modern astronomy and geology Are false because they do not agree with Moses it is now endeavouring to prove that the account of Moses is True because it agrees with modern astronomy and geology. In other works the Standard has changed the ancient is measured by the modern and where the literal statement in the Bible does not agree with the modern discoveries they do not change the discoveries but give new meanings to the old account. We Are not now endeavouring to reconcile science with the Bible but to reconcile the Bible with science. Nothing shows the extent of modern doubt More than the eagerness with which christians search for some new testimony. Luther answered Copernicus with a passage of scriptures and he answered him to the satisfaction of orthodox ignorance. The truth is that the jews adopted the stories of the creation the Garden of Eden forbidden fruit and the fall of Man. They were told by older barbarians than they and the jews gave them to us. I never said that the Bible is All bad. I have always admitted that there Are Many Good and splendid things in the jewish scriptures and Many bad things. What i insist is that we should have the courage and the common sense to accept the Good and throw away the bad. Evil is not Good because found in Good company and truth is truth even when surrounded by falsehood. Mih Taireh. Q. I see that you Are frequently charged with disrespect toward your parents a with Luck of reverence for the opinions of your father. A. I think my father and Mother,.upon several religious questions were mistaken in fart i have no doubt that they were but i never Felt under the slightest obligation to defend my father s mistakes. No one can defend what he thinks is a mistake without being dishonest. This is a poor Way to show respect for parents. Every protestant Clergyman asks men and women who had Catholic parents to desert the Church in which they were raised. They have no hesitation in saying to these people that their father and mothers were mistaken and that they were de a Cei Ved by priests and Popes. The probability is that we Are All mistaken about most every thing but it is impossible for a Man to be respectable enough to make a mistake respectable. There is nothing remarkably holy in a Blunder nor praiseworthy in stub Bing the toe of the mind against a mistake. Is it possible that logic stands paralysed in the presence of Absurdity suppose a Man has a bad father is he bound by the bad father s opinion when he is Satis fied that the opinion is wrong How Good does a father have to be in order to put his son under obligation to defend his blunders suppose the father thinks one Way and the Mother the other what Are the children to do suppose the father changes his opinion what then suppose the father thinks one Way and the Mother the other and they both die when the boy is Young and the boy is bound out whose mistakes is he then bound to follow our missionaries Tell the barbarian boy that his Par rents Are mistaken that they know nothing and that the wooden god is nothing but a senseless idol. They do not hesitate to Tell this boy that his Mother believed lies and hugged it May be to her dying heart a miserable delusion. Why should a barbarian boy cast reproach upon his Parent i believe it was Christ who commanded his disciples to leave father and Mother not Only to leave them but to desert them and not Only to desert father and Mother but to desert wives and children. It is also told of Christ that he said that he came to set fathers against children and children against fathers. Strange that a Follower of his should object to a Man differing in opinion from his parents. The truth is logic knows nothing of consanguinity facts have no relatives but other facts and these facts do not depend upon the character of the person who states them or upon the position of the discoverer. And this leads met another Branch of this same sub it Jet. opinions of great men. The ministers Are continually saying that certain great men Kings presidents statesmen millionaires have believed in the inspiration of the Bible. Only the other Day i read a Sermon in who Carlyle was quoted As having Aid that Quot the Bible is a Noble that All May be and yet the Book not be inspired. But what is the simple assertion of Thomas Carlyle Worth if the assertion is based upon a reason then it if Worth simply the value of the read son and the reason is Worth just As much without the assertion but without the reason the assertion is worthless. Thomas Carlyle thought and solemnly put the thought in print that his father was a greater Man than Robert Burns. His opinion did Burns no harm and his father no Good. Since Reading his Quot reminiscences Quot i have no great opinion of his opinion. In som6 respects he was undoubtedly a great Man in others a Small one. No Man should give the opinion of another As authority and in place of fact and reason unless he is willing to take All the opinions of that Man. An opinion is Worth the Warp and Woof of fact and logic in it and no More. A Man cannot add to the truthfulness of truth. In the Ordinary business of life give certain weight to the opinion of specialists to the opinion of doctors lawyers scientists Ai historians. Within the Domain of the natural we take the opinions of our fellow men but we do not feel that we Are absolutely bound by these opinions. We have the right to re examine them and if we find they Are wrong we feel at Liberty to say so. A doctor is supposed to have studied Medicine to have examined and explored the questions entering into his profession but we know that doctors Are often mistaken. We also know that there Are Many schools of Medicine that these schools disagree with each other and that the doctors of each school disagree with each other. We also know that Many patients die and so far As we know these patients have not Corne Back to Tell us whether the doctors kill them or not. The grave generally prevents a demonstration. It is exactly the same with the clergy. They have Many schools of theology All despising each other. Probably no two members of the same Church exactly agree. They cannot demonstrate their propositions because Between the premise and the logical conclusion or demonstration stands the Tomb. A Gravestone Marks the end of theology. In some cases the physicians can by a postmortem examination find what killed the patient but there is no theological postmortem. It is impossible by cutting a body open to find where the soul has gone or whether baptism or the Lack of it had the slightest effect upon the final destiny. The Church knowing that there Are no facts beyond the coffin relies upon opinions assertions and theories. For this reason it is always asking alms of distinguished people. Some president wishes to be re elected and thereupon Speaks about the Bible As Quot the Corner Stone of american this sentence is a Mouth Large enough to Swallow any Church and from that Church and from that time Forward the people will be citing that remark of the politician to substantiate the inspiration of the scriptures. The Man who accepts opinions because they have been entertained by distinguished people is a mental snob. When we blindly follow authority we Are serfs. When our reason is convinced we Are freemen. It is rare to find a fully rounded and Complete Man. A Man May be a great doctor and a poor Mechanic a successful poli. Titian and a poor Meta physician a poor Painter and a Good poet. The rarest thin in the world is a logician that is to say the Man who knows the value of a fact. It is hard to find mental proportion. Theories May be established by names but facts cannot be demonstrated in that Way. Very Small people Are sometimes right and very great people Are sometimes wrong. Ministers Are sometimes right., in All the philosophies of the world there Are undoubtedly contradictions and absurdities. The mind of Man is imperfect and perfect results Are impossible. A Mirror in order to reflect a per feet picture a perfect copy must itself be perfect. The mind is a Little piece of intellectual Glass the surface of which in not True not perfect. In consequence of this every image is More or less distorted. The less we know the More we imagine that we can know but the More we know the smaller seems the sum of knowledge. The less we know the More we expect the More we Hope for and the More seems within the Range of probability. The less we have the More we want. There never was a banquet magnificent enough to gratify the imagination of a beggar. The moment people begin to reason about what they Call the supernatural they seem to lose their minds. People seem to have lost their reason in religious matters very much As the Dodo is said to have lost its wings they have been restricted to a Little inspired Island and by disease their reason has been lost. not taught in the jewish scriptures. In the jewish scriptures you will find simply the literature of the jews. You will find there the tears and anguish of Captivity patriotic Fervour National aspiration proverbs for the conduct of daily life Laws regulations customs legends philosophy and Folly. These books or course were not written by one Man but by Many authors. They did not agree having been written in different centuries under different circumstances. I see that has at last concluded that the old testament does not teach the doctrine of immorality. He admits that from mount Sinai came no Hope for the dead. It is very curious that we find in the old testament no funeral service. No one stands by the dead and predicts another life. In the old testament there is no Promise of another world. I have sometimes thought that while the jews were slaves in Egypt the doctrine of immortality became hateful. They built so Many tombs they carried so Many burdens to commemorate the dead they saw a nation waste its wealth to adorn its Graves and leave the living naked to embalm the dead that they concluded the doctrine was a curse and never should be taught. Q. If the jews did not believe in immortality How do you account for the allusions made to witches and wizards and things of that character a. When Saul visited the Witch of Endor and she by some magic spell called up Samuel the a Rojah it said Quot Why Hast thou disquieted me to Call me up Quot he did not say Quot Why have you called me from another world Quot the idea expressed is i was asleep Why have you disturbed that repose which should be eternal the ancient jews believed in witches and wizards and familiar spirits but they did not seem to think that these spirits had once been men and women. They spoke of them As belonging to another world a world to which Man would never find his Way. At that time it was supposed that Jehovah and his Angels lived in the sky but that Region was not spoken of As the destined Home of Man. Jacob saw Angels going up and Down the ladder but not the spirits of those he had known. There Are two cases where it seems that men were Good enough to be adopted in the family of heaven. Enoch was translated and Elijah was taken up in a Chariot of fire. As it is exceedingly cold at the Hight of a few Miles it is easy to see Why the Chariot was of fire and the same fact explains another circumstance a the dropping of the Mantle. The jews probably believed in the existence of other beings that is to say in Angels and Good evil spirits a and that they lived in other worlds but there is no passage showing that they believed in what we Call the immortality of the soul. immortality of the soul. Q. Do you believe in the immortality of the soul a. I neither assert nor deny i simply admit that i do not know. Upon that subject i am absolutely without evidence. This is the Only world that i was Ever in. There May be spirits but i have never met them and do not know that i would recognize a spirit. I can form no Conception of what is called spiritual life. It May be that i am deficient in imagination and that ministers have no difficulty in conceiving of Angels and disembodied souls. I have not the slightest idea How a soul looks what shape it is How it goes from one place to another whether it walks or flies. I cannot conceive of any thing existing without form and yet the fact that i cannot conceive of a thing does not prove that the thing does not exist but it does prove that i know nothing about it and that being so i ought to admit my ignorance. I am satisfied of a Good Many things that i do do not know. I am satisfied that there is no place of eternal torment. I am satisfied that that doctrine has done More harm than All the religious ideas other than that have done Good. I do not want to take any Hope from any human heart. I have no objection to people believing in any Good things no objection to their expecting a Crown of infinite Joy for every human being. Many people imagine that immortality must be an infinite Good but after All there is something terrible in the idea of endless life. Think of a River that never reaches the sea of a Bird that never folds its wings of a journey that never ends. Most people find great pleasure in thinking about and believing in another world. There the prisoner expects to be free the slave to find Liberty the poor Man expects wealth the Rich Man happiness the peasant dreams of Power and the King of Contentment. They expect to find there what they Lack Here. I do not wish to destroy these dreams. I am endeavouring to put out the everlasting fires. A Good Cool grave is infinitely better than eternal pain. For my part i would rather be annihilated than to be an Angel with All the privileges of heaven and yet have within my breast a heart that could be Happy while those who have loved me in this world were in perdition. I most sincerely Hope that the future life will fulfil All splendid dreams but in the religion of the present Day there is no Joy. Nothing is so devoid of Comfort when bending Over our dead As the assertions of theology unsupported by a single fact. The promises Are so far away and the dead Are so near. From words spoken High teen centuries ago the echoes Are so weak and the sounds of the clods on the coffin Are so loud. Above the grave what can the honest minister say if the dead was not a Christian what then what Comfort can the orthodox Clergyman give to the widow of the honest unbeliever if christianity is True the other world will be worse than this. There the Many will be miserable Only the few Happy there the miserable cannot better their condition the future has no Star of Hope and in tie East of eternity Liere can never be a Dawn. Vili a thic Ueli Aion ii ask. We Sho i q. If you take away the idea of eternal punishment How do you propose to restrain men in what Way will you influence conduct for Good a. Well the trouble with religion is that it postpones punishment and Reward to another world. Wrong is wrong because it Breeds unhappiness. Right is right because it tends to the happiness of Man. These facts Are the basis of what i Call the religion of this world. When a Man does wrong the consequences follow and Between the cause and the effect a redeemer cannot step. Forgiveness cannot form a breastworks Between act and consequence. There should be a religion of the body a religion that will prevent deformity that will refuse to multiply insanity that will not propagate disease a religion that is judged by its consequences in this world. Orthodox christianity has taught and still teaches that in this world the difference Between the Good and bad is that the bad enjoy themselves while the Good carry the Cross of virtue with bleeding brows bound and pierced with the thorns of honesty and kindness. All this in my judgment is immoral. The Man who does wrong carries a Cross. There is no world no Star in which the result of wrong is real happiness. There is no world no Star in which the result of right doing is unhappiness. Virtue and vice must be the same everywhere. Vice must be vice everywhere because its consequences Are evil and virtue must be virtue everywhere because its consequences Are Good. There can be no such thing As forgiveness. These facts Are the Only restraining influences possible the innocent Man cannot suffer for the guilty and satisfy the Law. number of christians. Q. How do you answer the argument or fact that the Church is constantly increasing and that there Are now some four Hundred millions of christians a. That is what i Call the argument of numbers. If that argument is Good now it was always Good. If christians were at any time in the minority then Accord ing to this argument. Christianity was wrong. Every religion that has succeeded has appealed to the argument of numbers. There was a time when buddhism was in a majority. Buddha not Only had but has More followers than Christ. Success is not a demonstration. Mohammed was a Success and a Success from the commencement. Upon a thousand Fields he was Victor. Of the scattered tribes of the desert he made a nation and this nation took the fairest part of Europe from the followers of the Cross. In the history of the world the Success of Mohammed is unparalleled but this Success does not establish that he was the Prophet of god. Now it is claimed that there Are. Some four Hundred millions of christians. To make that total i am counted As a Christian i am one of the fifty or sixty millions of christians in the United states excluding indians not taxed. By the census reports we Are All going to heaven we Are All orthodox. At the last great Day we can refer with Confidence to the ponderous volumes containing the statistics of the United states. As a matter of fact How Many christians Are in the United states How Many believers in the inspiration of the scriptures How Many real followers of Christ i will not pretend to give the number but i will venture to say there Are not fifty millions. How Many in England where Are the four Hundred millions found to make this in Mence number they have counted All the heretics and the catholics All the jews spiritualists universalist and unitarians All the babies All the idiotic and insane All the infidels All the scientists All the unbelievers. As a matter of fact they have no right to count any except the orthodox members of the orthodox churches. There May be More Quot members Quot now than formerly and the increase of members is due to a decrease of religion. Thousands of members Are Only nominal christians wearing the old uniform simply because they do not wish to be charged with desertion. The Church too is a kind of social institution a club with a Creed instead of by Laws and the Creed is never defended unless attacked by an outsider. No objection is made to the minister because he is Liberal if he says nothing about it in the pulpit. A Man like or. Beecher draws a congregation not because he is a Christian but because he is a Genius not because he is orthodox but because he has something to say. He is an intelligent athlete. He is full of pathos and poetry. He has More description than divinity More Charity than Creed and altogether More common sense than theology. For these reasons thousands of people love to hear him. On the see id Psge

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