Page 2 of Apr 5 1884 Issue of Indianapolis Monroes Iron Clad Age in Indianapolis, Indiana

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Indianapolis Monroes Iron Clad Age (Newspaper) - April 5, 1884, Indianapolis, Indiana 2this Ira i Clad , Liee foliated Sev Monr a pril 5, 1884. �. I Theiron Ladage. Indianapolis. April 5, 1884. A Asti Letlon of in we am m free people a Eaarl the follow Nar belly Long Freedom amendment to the coi the i tilted states anti Che i. So. 1. Neither Congress nor any state shall make an Esta bushmen of religion or any Law respecting an Esta bushmen of religion or la Toring any particular Fohn of religion or prohibiting the free Percise thereof or permitting in any degree a Union of Church and state or granting any immunity or advantage to any sect or religious body or to any number of sects or religious bodies or taxing the people of any Jinn Ging the Freedom of speech either directly or indirectly. Of 1 for the support of any number of sects or sect or religious body or of religious bodies or abridge a a or of the press or the right of the people peacefully to assemble and to petition the govern sent for a redress of grievances. 8kc. 2. No religions test shall Ever be required As a condition of suffrage or As a qualification to any of a a. State. No person shall my of his or her rights i Quot Ingebor capacities Ordi a Aliased for the Perth see or Public troist in any a Vei be deprived of any of Ance of any Public or private duty or rendered incompetent to give evidence in any court of Law or equity in consequence of any opinions be or she May hold on the subject of religion. No person shall Ever be required by Law to contribute directly or indirectly to the support of any religions society nobody of which she or he is not a voluntary member. Sec. 3. Neither the United states nor any state territory or municipality or any civil division of any state or territory shall Levy any tax or make any gift Grant or appropriation for the us a Dofi a a a a f any Church any Sci a a Lous sect or denomination or or institution of learning in which the Faith or doctrines of any religious order or sect shall be taught or inculcated or in which religious rites shall be observed or for the supporter in Aid of any religious Charity or purpose of any sect order or denomination whatever. Sec. 4. Congress shall have Power to enforce the various provisions of this article by appropriate leg dilation. Jan. 8,10s,-9y la i my ins Ersoll pumped for politics and religion with excellent results. During col. Ingersoll s late Western tour he was interviewed by a Denver Tribune reporter who makes the following revelation at an Early hour last night a Republican reporter was politely shown to room 182 of the st. James in which were gathered half a dozen gentlemen one writing in Short hand and All listening intently to the Graceful easy flow of language of a smooth faced portly gentleman who discoursed readily on the subjects of politics and religion. The talker was colonel Robert g. Ingersoll known by reputation to everyone from one end of the country to the other. Sex United states senator Stephen w. Dorsey was his right hand Man suggesting Points now and then and enthusiastically endorsing what the colonel said. The writer was or. Baker private Sec re tary of col. Ingersoll. The reporter was greeted cordially and invited to take a seat at the table which he did and As soon As the business in hand was disposed of began asking questions of the Reno de atheist or As he styled himself pantheist. They were All answered readily and with not the slightest hesitation the colonel s memory of names and events being extremely Good. A stenographic report of the interview is Given below. The first question asked was Quot who will be the Republican nominee for president Quot col. Ingersoll answered Quot the Correct answer to this question would make so Many men unhappy that i have concluded not to give the reporter then asked Quot has not the democracy injured itself irretrievably by permitting the free Trade element to Rule it Quot Quot i do not think Quot was the reply Quot that the democratic party weakened itself by electing Carlisle speaker. I think him an excellent Man an exceedingly candid Man and one who will do what he believes ought to be done. I have a very High opinion of or. Carlisle. I do not suppose any party in this country in really for free Trade. I find that All writers upon the subject no matter which Side they Are on Are on that Side with certain exceptions. Adam Smith was in favor of free Trade with a few exceptions and those exceptions were in matters where he thought it was for England s interest not to have free Quot yes Quot remarked sex senator Dorsey Quot and Richard Cobden was Quot the same May be said of All writers Quot continued the colonel. Quot so far As i can see the free traders have All the arguments and the protectionists All the facts. The free Trade theories Are splendid but they will not work out the results Are disastrous. We find by actual Experiment that it is better to protect Home industries. It was once said that Protection created nothing but monopoly the argument was that Way but the facts Are not. Take for instance steel rails when we bought them of England we paid $125 a ton. I believe there was a Tariff of some $28 or $29 a Tony was it not senator Quot Quot Twenty nine dollars Quot answered or. Dorsey. Quot and it Quot pursued colonel Ingersoll Quot in spite of All the arguments going to show that Protection would simply increase prices in America would simply enrich the capitalist and impoverish the consumer steel Lails Are now produced i believe right Here in Colorado for $42 a ton. Quot after All it is a question of labor a question of prices that shall be paid the Labouring Man a question of what the Labouring Man shall eat whether he shall eat meat or soup made from the Bones. Very few people take into consideration the value of raw material and the value of labor. Take for instance your ton of steel rails Worth $42. The Iron in the Earth is not Worth 25 cents. The Coal in the Earth and the Lime in the ledge together Are not Worth 25 cants. Now then of the $42, $41.50 is labor. There is not $2 Worth of raw material in a locomotive that Sells for $15,000. By raw material i mean the material in the Earth. There is not in a watch the works of which will sell for $15, of raw material in the Earth one half cent. All the rest is labor. A ship a Man of War that costs $1,000,000�?the raw material in the Earth is not Worth in my judgment $1,000. All the rest is labor. If there is any Way to protect american labor i am in favor of it. If the present Tariff does not do it then i am in favor of changing to one that will. If the democratic party takes a stand for free Trade or anything like it they will need Protection at the polls that is to say they will meet Only with defeat and Quot what should be done with the surplus Revenue Quot was then asked. Quot my answer to that Quot said the colonel Quot is reduce internal Revenue taxation until the present surplus is exhausted and then Endeavor so to arrange your Tariff that you will not produce More than you need. I think the easiest question to grapple with on this Earth is a surplus of Quot that never bothers me to any great extent Quot Soho Voce from senator Dorsey. The colonel did not seem to notice the remark but continued. Quot i do not believe in distributing it among the states. I do not think there could be a better certificate of the Prosperity of our country than the fact that we Are troubled with a surplus Revenue that we have got the machinery for collecting taxes in such perfect order so ingeniously contrived that it can t be stopped that it goes right on collecting Money whether we want it or not and the wonderful thing about it is that nobody come Plains. If nothing else can be done with the surplus Revenue probably we had better pay some of our debts. I would suggest As a last resort to pay a few honest Quot some Indian claims for instance Quot remarked the senator. Quot it is a shame that for forty years they have not been at the conclusion of these remarks of a political nature the reporter branched off into religion with the following question Quot Are you getting nearer to or further away from god christianity and the Bible Quot colonel Ingersoll replied As follows Quot in the first place As or. Locke so often remarked we will define our terms. If by the word god is meant a person a being who existed before the creation of the universe and who controls All that is except himself i do not believe in such a being but if by the word god is meant All that is that is to say the universe including every atom and every Star then i am a believer. I suppose the word that would nearest describe me is pantheist. I cannot believe that a being existed from eternity and who finally created this universe after having wasted an eternity in idleness but us on this subject i know just As Little As anybody Ever did or Ever will and in my judgment just As much. My intellectual horizon is somewhat limited and to Tell you the truth this is the Only world that i was Ever it. I am what might be called a representative of a Rural District and As a matter of fact i know very Little about my District. I believe it was confucius who said How should i know anything about another world who know so Little of this Quot Quot when i know so Little of this Quot corrected senator Dorsey. Quot yes Quot said the colonel Quot when i know so Little of this the greatest intellects of the world have endeavoured to find words to express their Conception of god of the first cause or of the science of being but they have never succeeded. I find in the old confession of Faith in the old catechism for instance this description that god is a being without body parts or passions. I think it would trouble anybody to find a better definition of nothing. That describes a vacuum that is to say that describes the absence of everything. I find that theology is a subject that Only the most ignorant Are certain about and that the More a Man thinks the less he knows. Quot from the Bible god i do not know that i am going farther and farther away. I have been about As far As a Man could go for Many years. I do not believe in the god of the old testament. Quot now As to the next Branch of your question christianity. The question arises. What is christianity i have no objection to the morality taught As a part of christianity no objection to its Charity its forgiveness its kindness no objection to its Hope for this world and another not the slightest but All these things do not make christianity. Mohammed taught car Tain doctrines that Are Good but the Good in the teaching of Mohammed is not Moha Mindan ism. When i speak of christianity i speak of that which is distinctly Christian. For instance the idea that the infinite god was born in Palestine Learned the Carpenter s Trade disputed with the Parsons of his time excited the Wrath of the theological bigots and was finally crucified that afterwards he was raised from the dead and that if anybody believes this he will be saved and if he fails to believe it will be lost in other words that which is distinctly Christian in the Christian system is its supernaturalism its miracles its Absurdity. Truth does not need to go in partnership with the supernatural. What Christ said is worthy the reason it contains. If a Man raises the dead and then says twice two Are five that changes no Rule in mathematics. If a multiplication table was divinely inspired that does no Good. The question is is it Correct so i think that in the world of morals we must prove that a thing is right or wrong by experience by analogy not by miracles. There is no fact in physical science that can be supernaturally demonstrated neither is there any fact in the moral world that coi ild be substantiated by miracles. Now then keeping in mind that by christianity i mean the supernatural in that system of course i am just As far away Fromelt As i can Ever get. For the Man Christel have respect. He waa a Novelty his Day and the ministers Day cried out bl�8ph�in Yas Topf have been crying Ever since against every person who has suggested a new thought or shown the worthlessness of an old one. Quot now As to the third part of the question the Bible people say that the Bible is inspired. Well what does inspiration mean did god write it no. But the men who did write it were guided by the holy spirit. Very Well. Did they write exactly what the holy spirit wanted them to write Well religious people say yes. At the same time they admit that the gentlemen who Avert collecting or taking Down in Short hand what was said had to use their own words. Now we All know that the same words do not have the same meaning to All people. It is impossible to convey the same thoughts to All minds by the same language and it is for that reason that the la Ible has produced so Many sects not Only disagreeing with each other but disagreeing among themselves. Quot to find then that it is utterly impossible for god admitting that there is one to convey the same thoughts by human language to All people. No two persons understand the same language alike. A Man s understanding depends upon his experience upon his capacity upon the particular Bent of his mind in fact upon the countless influences that have made him what he is. Everything in nature tells every one who sees it a Story but that Story depends upon the capacity of the one to whom it Jis told. The sea says one thing to an Ordinary Man and another thing to Shakespeare. The stars have not the same language for All people. The consequence is that no Book can Tell the same Story to any two people. The jews scriptures Are like other Bool written by different men in different Ages of the world hundreds of years apart filled with contradictions. They embody i presume fairly enough the Wisdom and ignorance the reason and prejudice of the times in which they were written. They Are Worth the Good that is in them and the question is whether we will take the Good and throw the bad away. Thei a Are Wise and foolish saying. There Are general and cruel passages and you can find a text to suit almost any Frame of min whether you wish to do an act of Charity or murder a neigh Boias babe you will find a passage the will exactly fit the Case. So that i can say that i am still for the reasonable for the natural and still am opposed to the absurd and colonel Ingersoll was next asked. Is there any better or More ennobling belief than christianity if so what is it to which he answered Quot there Are Many Good things of course in every religion or they would not have existed plenty of Good precepts in christianity but the thing that i object to More than All others is the doctrine of eternal punishment the idea of hell for tie Many and heaven for the few. Take from christianity the doctrine of eternal punishment and i have no partic a objection to what is generally preached. If you will take that away and All the supernatural connected with it i have no objection but that doctrine of eternal punishment tends to Harden the Luman heart. It has produced More misery than All the other doctrines of the world. It has shed More blood it has made More martyrs. It has lighted the fires of persecution and kept the sword of cruelty wet with heroic blood for at least a thousand years. There is no crime that that doctrine has not produced. I think it would be impossible for the imagination to conceive of a Woi be religion than orthodox christianity a utterly impossible. A doctrine that divides this world a doctrine that divides families the doctrine that teaches the son that he can be Happy with his Mother in perdition the husband that he can be Happy in heaven while his wife suffers the agony of hell this doctrine is infinite injustice and tends to subvert All ideas of Justice in the human heart. I think it would be impossible to conceive of a doctrine better calculated to make wild beasts of men than that in fact that doctrine was born of All the wild beast there is in Man. It was born of infinite revenge. Quot think of preaching that you must believe that a certain being was the son of god no matter whether your reason is convinced or not. Suppose we should meet we will say on London Bridge a Man Clad in rags and he should Stop us and say my Friend i wish to talk with you a moment. I am the rightful King of great Britain and you should say to him Well my dinner is waiting i have no time to bother about who the King of England is and then he should meet another and insist on his stopping while he pulled out some papers to show that he was the rightful King of England and the other Man should say i have got business Here my Friend i am Selling goods and i have no time to bother my head about who the King of England is. No doubt you Are the King of England but you Don t look like the King of England and then suppose he stops another Man and makes the same statement to him and the other Man should laugh at him and say i Don t want to hear anything on this subject you Are crazy you ought to go to some insane Asylum or put something on your head to keep you Cool and suppose after All it should turn out that the Man was King of England and should afterwards make his claim Good and be crowned in Westminster. What would we think of that King if he should Hunt up the gentlemen that he met on London Bridge and have their Heads Cut off because they had not Faith that he was the rightful heir and what would we think of a god now who would Damn a Man eighteen Hundred years after the event because he did t believe that he was god at the time be was living in Jerusalem not Only Damn the Fellows that he met and who did t believe in him but gentlemen who lived eighteen Hundred years afterwards and could certainly have known nothing of the facts except from hearsay. Quot the Best religion after All is common sense a religion for this world one world at a time a religion for to Day. We want a religion that will Deal in question in which we Are interested. How Are we to do away with crime How Are we to do away with pauperism ? How Are we to do away with the want and misery in every civilized country England is a Christian nation yet about one in six in the City of London die in almshouses asylums prisons hospitals and jails. We i suppose Are a civilized nation and yet All the penitentiaries Are crammed there is want on every hand and my opinion is that we had better turn our attention to this world. Quot christianity is charitable christianity spends a great Deal of Money but j am somewhat doubt Ful As to the Good that is accomplished. There ought to be some Way to prevent crime not simply to punish it. There ought to be some Way to prevent pauperism not simply to relieve temporarily a pauper. If the ministers and Good people belonging to the churches would spend their time investigating the affairs of this world and let the new Jerusalem take care of itself i think it would be far better. Quot the Church is guilty of one great contradiction. The ministers Are always talking about worldly people and yet were it not for worldly people who would pay the salary How could the Church live a minute unless somebody attended to the affairs of this world the Best religion in my opinion is common sense going along hand in hand with kindness and not troubling ourselves about another world until we get there. I am willing for one to wait and see what kind of a country it will Quot does the question of the inspiration of the scriptures affect the Beauty and benefits of christianity Here and hereafter Quot Quot a belief in the inspiration of the scriptures has done in my judgment vast harm. The Bible has been the breastworks for nearly everything wrong. The defenders of slavery relied on the Bible. The Bible was the real auction Block on which every negro stood when he was sold. I never knew a minister to preach in favor of slavery that he did t find his passage in the Bible. The Bible teaches persecution for opinion s Sake. The Bible a that is the old testament upholds polygamy and just to the extent that men through the Bible have believe that slavery religious persecution wars of extermination and polygamy were taught by god just to that extent the Bible has done great harm. The idea of inspiration enslaves the human mind and debauched the human Quot is not christianity and a belief in god a Check upon Mankind in general and thus a Good thine in itself Quot Quot this again brings up the question of what you mean by christianity but taking it. For granted that you mean by christianity the Church i answer that when the Church had almost absolute authority then the world was the worst. Quot now As to the other part of the question is not a belief in god a Check upon Mankind in general that is owing to what kind of god the Man believes in. When Mankind believed in the god of the old testament i think that belief was a bad thing the tendency was bad. I think that John Calvin patterned after Jehovah As nearly As his health and strength would permit. Man makes god in his own image and bad men Are not Apt to have a very Good god if they make him. I believe it is far better to have a real belief in goodness in kindness in honesty and in Mankind than in any supernatural being whatever. I do not suppose it would do any harm for a Man to believe in a real Good god a god without revenge a. God that m As not very particular in having a Man believe a doctrine whether he could understand it or not. I do not believe that a belief of that kind would do any particular parm. Quot there is a vast difference Between the god of Jolin Calvin and the god of Henry Ward Beecher and a great difference Between the god of Cardinal Pedro Gonzales de Mendoza and the god of Theodore Quot Well colonel is the world growing better or worse Quot Quot i think better in some respects and worse in others but on the whole better. It is my opinion that while events like the pendulum of a clock go backward and Forward Man like the hands goes Forward. I think there is More reason and less religion More Charity and less Creed. The Church is improving. Ministers Are ashamed to preach the old doctrines with the old Fervour. There was a time when the pulpit con tooled the pews. It is so no longer. The pews know what they want and if the minister does t furnish it they discharge him and employ another. He is no longer an autocrat he must bring to the Market what his customers Are willing to the reporter then startled col. Ingersoll with Quot what Are you going to do to be saved Quot he smiled and said Quot Well i think i am Safe anyway. I suppose i have a right to rely on what Matthew says that if i forgive others god will forgive me. I suppose if there is another world. I shall be treated very much As i treat others. I never expect to find perfect Bliss anywhere maybe i should tire of it if i should. What i have endeavoured to do has been to put out the fires of an ignorant and cruel hell to do what i could to destroy that Dogma to destroy that doctrine that makes Tho Cradle As terrible As the the interview had now lasted an hour and taking the colonel for his Courtesy the scribe left the room. Spider life wonders. Scie Tiac american. In a lecture at Lowell Institute professor Wood dealt with the Phenomena of spider life. The female is larger and much fiercer than the male who while paying his addresses is in constant peril frequently losing some of his legs. In one tribe the female is 1,300 times As Large As the male. The spider s thread is made up of innumerable Small threads or fibres one of these threads being estimated to be one two Millionth of a hair in thickness. Three kinds of thread Are spun one of great strength for the radiating or spoke lines of the web. The Cross lines or what a Sailor might Call the rat lines Are finer and Are tenacious that is they have upon them Little specks or globules of a very Sticky gum. These specks Are put on with even interspace. They Are set thickly along the line and Are what in the first instance catch and hold the legs or wings of the Fly. Once caught in this fashion the prey is held secure by threads Flung Over it somewhat in the manner of a Lasso. The third kind of silk is that which the spider throws out in a mass or flood by which it suddenly envelops any prey of which it is somewhat afraid As for example a Wasp. A scientific experimenter once Drew out from the body of a single spider 3,480 Yards of thread or spider silk a length a Little Short of three Miles. Silk May be Woven of spider s thread and it is More Glossy and Brilliant than that of the silk worm being of a Golden color. An enthusiastic entomologist secured enough of it for the weaving of a suit of clothes for Louis Xiv. A new religion. Clinic ago mews. The question Quot will there by a new religion Quot was treated by the Rev. Or. Thomas on saturday evening at the meeting of the philosophical society the conclusion reached by the lecturer being that there will not there being no room for new theories. That this conclusion accords with popular sentiment is unquestionable and As it is Only through the operation of extraneous Infix ence on the minds of the people that that sentiment can be changed it May be assumed to be Correct there being no such influence at work no any present indications of one to arise in the future. Indeed the tendency of the age Long religious seems on the Point of becoming the reverse and the danger ahead instead of appearing to be a new Creed seems rather to be a desertion of existing creeds for some form or the other of agnosticism benevolent perhaps but of course irreligious in the sense in which we commonly understand religion. There is however a Strong leaven of conservatism in human nature which of itself would even should such a wave of infidelity sweep the world As did at the time of the French revolution preserve the old creeds until the reaction came and this reaction would be As sure As that there is in every human heart a sense of the incompleteness of this life and a natural yearning after such a future state As religion assures us of. In this age no religion maker could convince enough of the world to entitle his followers to a place among christians jews and adherents of the other creeds that Divide the Globe Between them. A monstrosity like mormonism might be developed claiming to rest upon already accepted scriptures As Well As upon a new revelation but no such movements As gave Rise to mohammedanism for example Are to be feared. Or. Thomas made one Point that is especially worthy of notice when he Drew attention to the necessity for better practice of religious precepts. Undoubtedly the wide variance Between the professions and the practice of Many so called self styled one should rather say religious people is the cause of irreligion in others. It is this More than the self comprehended teachings of scientists that makes Many a Man not merely an agnostic but a downright atheist and is the chief difficulty of the Day with the churches. Quot ii . I silk a Hil al. A

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