Page 2 of 10 Feb 1830 Issue of Indianapolis Indiana Journal in Indianapolis, Indiana

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Indianapolis Indiana Journal (Newspaper) - February 10, 1830, Indianapolis, Indiana M a a evident that the grossest injustice Quot must full Goiri Eshete and to carry it Quot through Ripon a a in principle would tend to defeat the great indeed the prime object of the donors of the try St. So far from tranquil izing the people of this coi federation it would Lead to a state of Public feeling in every respect the reverse. A few words to my Friend from Vermont and i have done. I have never been More astonished than it seeing the course which he has in and when 1 Call him any Friend i do so sincerely and candidly. I have always found him generous of heart Liberal in his sentiments arid the steady untiring supporter of All the valuable institutions of the country. I found him with me in obtaining the Quot appropriation of land for the Wabash and Erie canal and my heart has never ceased to recollect with gratitude his kind Aid on that occasion but if he now turns a boat and Calls upon us to pay Back the amount of that appropriation i shall have however reluctantly to cease to cherish those pleasing recollections. To say their have been appropriations made with lit a View o the general by refit of the whole nation is a direct imputation upon the honesty and integrity of the gentlemen who composed that Congress and i am ready to answer for my Friend from Vermont that he never gave a vote in House through Mere whim and a Caprice hut when he did vote on any question St was an honest and generally a very judicious one. Here or. Mallary Rose arid begged to be heard in he said he was sorry that be should have been so misunderstood that he had declared in the outset that he bad no disposition to Call upon the new states to repay the appropriations made them that he believed them to be of a National Benefit calculated rather to enhance the value of the Public i Ornain than to diminish it. Or test resumed. My Friend from Vermont has misunderstood me and not i Hinn. If he had waited a a moment i should have satisfied him and this House that i never intended to attribute to him any such intention. I had intended to say that he had in the outset disclaimed every idea of calling upon the new states to repay the value of the appropriations they had received but at the same time i heard him thus disclaiming every such intention i could not help but see him advocating the passage of the Resolution and amendment before the House which Lead to All the evils i have deprecated. He says he is not for an immediate distribution of these hands but he wishes this As a Mere pie Paratory step. If nothing is to be done now Why push the measure Why arouse the excitement and All the angry feelings consequent upon it if nothing is to be done Why not let it sleep till methinks the time arrived when it ought to be awakened he Gays he hears a sentiment propagated by Many very Many which if it shall ultimately prevail All their prospects of obtaining a share of the Public lands Are at an end that is that the lands of right belong to the states in which they lie wherefore he says he wishes to be paving the Way for a proper disposition of this part of the Public Domain in time. Sir i should think the gentleman s a conclusive evidence that a was afraid to submit his proposition to the deliberate cogitations of the people. He is fearful that that monstrous sentiment which be has heard in whispers might assume a More audible tone he is fearful it May gain upon Public opinion. Sir if it be True that such a sentiment or opinion be gaining ground it is one of the strongest reasons under heaven Aljy the decision of the question should be postponed. Let the people deliberate upon it and my life for it they will come to a Correct conclusion concerning it. Is the gentleman afraid to postpone if till after the next census i should think 80, from his desire to push the matter now. Why sir drive us into a decision now Why not let it remain till Public opinion has decided upon in the new states ate but weak in numerical strength Why cram the measure Down their throats before they shall have acquired the strength which the new census will give them it shows there is something wrong about it and that he is afraid to Trust it to the searching investigations of time. If we must have a scramble for this property give us a Chance with you dont Tate the advantage of our present representative weakness when you know we have a Large portion of original physical strength just ready to organize and bring into action. It would not be fair if we must lose our lands let us at least have the Benefit of All our strength before we commence the unequal struggle. Sir i can say to my Friend from Vermont t have never heard such principles As he mentions contended for i have never heard any Man deny hut that Congress had tit right to dispose of those lands according to the Tenor of the compacts with the Varia is states which have made Cessions. But i will say to my Friend that whatever lands the United states May have in new states at least the Western ones ferment has no land there nor never will have until the Western states consent to it or the most solemn engagements shall be violated by the Congress of the United states. Sir i have said this and i will say it Here that the gentleman May be apprised of it that when the motives or considerations for ceding those lands to the u. Slates by the several states shall have been fulfilled that from a principle of equity connected with the contract they must and will fall to the states in which they lie and sir i will give the gentleman the grounds of my opinion. Sir it is evident that these lands were ceded to the United states upon two considerations the most prominent of which was to create a sort of political balance in the Union As i have heretofore said the next was the payment of the Public debt. The lands Are therefore a Trust estate in the hands of Congress or the United states for the purpose of fulfilling the design of the states which ceded them that is to Lay off a certain number of new states not to exceed a certain size so As to create the balance of Power i have before stated which states were to be free Republican states possessing All the rights of sovereignty and Independence of the original states and at a proper time to be admitted into the Union upon an equal footing with them. Now sir is it not a settled principle in the construction of All trusts from which no tribunal Ever thought itself at Liberty to depart that when the whole object or consideration for which the Trust was created shall have been fulfilled that the estate reverts to the original donor unless otherwise directed by the terms of the Trust Here sir it is otherwise directed it never can revert to the donors. But sir when these new states shall have been Laid out and the pull Lic debt paid these lands must go to those new states according to the provisions of the Grant having All the rights of sovereignty Freedom and Independence of the original states. Sir i am forbidden to travel upon this ground it belongs not to the amendment but to the original Resolution which i have been warned not to discuss when a proper occasion however shall offer i May take up the subject More at Large but for the present i will oot trouble the House longer. or a Shiana. An act fixing the times of holding courts in the several judicial circuits in this state and Lor other purposes. St. 1. Be it enacted by the general Assembly of the state of Indiana that the circuit courts within the several judicial circuits in this state shall be annually held on the Days and times following Viz in the comity of Vermillion on the first mondays of March and september in the county of Parke on the second mondays of March and september in the county of Montgomery on the third mondays of March and september in the county of Fountain on the fourth mondays of March and september in the county of Warren on the thursdays next after the courts in the county of Fountain in the county of Tippecanoe on the second mondays of april and october in the county of Clinton on the third mondays of april and october in the county of Carroll on the thursdays succeeding the courts in the county of Clinton in the county of Cass on the fourth mondays of april and october and Iri the county of St. Joseph on the first mondays of May and november. The circuit courts to be Holden As a Bove in the first judicial circuit in the counties of Vermillion Parke Montgomery Fountain Tippecanoe and Cass shall each sit six Days if the Busti Icsis thereof require it and in the counties of Warren Clinton Carroll and St. Joseph shall each sit three Days if the business thereof require it. Sec. 2. In the county of Scott on the first mondays of March and third mondays of August in the county of Jackson on the second mondays of March and first mondays of september in the county of Lawrence on the third mondays in March and second mondays in september in the county of Orange on the fourth mondays in March and third mondays in september in the county of Washington on the first mondays of april and fourth mondays of september in the county of Harrison on the third mondays of april and first mondays of october in the county of Floyd on the third mondays in May and october and in the county of Clark on the fourth mondays in May and third mondays in november. The circuit courts to be Holden As above in the second judicial circuit in the counties of Jackson Lawrence Orange and flo3 a shall each sit six Days if the business thereof require it in the counties of Washington and Harrison shall each sit twelve Days if the business thereof require it in the county of Scott shall sit at the Spring term six Dilys and at the fall Fei twelve Dars if the business Thel Teof require it and in the county of Clark shall at each term sit until the e business thereof is finished. Sec. 3. In the county of Switzerland on the third mondays in february and August in the county of Jefferson on the fourth mondays of february and August in the county of Jennings on the second mondays of March and september in the county of Ripley on the third mondays of March and september in the county of Franklin on the fourth mondays of March and september in the county of Dearborn on the second mondays of april and october in the county of Decatur on the fourth mondays of april and october. And the said circuit courts to be Holden As above in the said third judicial circuit shall sit in the counties of Ripley Jennings Switzerland and Decatur six Days each if the business thereof require it and in the counties of Jefferson Dearborn and Franklin twelve Days each if the business thereof require it. Sec. 4. In the county of Dubois on the thursdays preceding the second mondays in april and october in the county of Pike on the second mondays of april and october in the county of Gibson on the third mondays of february and August in the county of Posey on the fourth mondays of february and August in the county of Vanderburgh on the second mondays of March and september in the county of Warrick on the third mondays of March and september in the county of Spencer on the thursdays after the courts in Warrick in the county of Perry on the fourth mondays of March and september and in the county of Crawford on the mondays after the courts in the county of Perry. The circuit courts to be Holden As a Bove in the fourth judicial circuit in the said counties of Pike Gibson Vanderburgh Perry and Crawford shall each sit six Days if the business thereof require it in the counties of Dubois Warrick and Spencer shall each sit three Days if the business thereof require it and in the county of Posey shall sit twelve Days each term if the business thereof require it provided however. That this act shall not take effect in the said fourth judicial circuit until the first Day of april next Sec. 5. In the county of Hancock on the wednesdays succeeding the last mondays in february and August in the county of Shelby on the first mondays in March and september in the county of Bartholomew on the second mondays in March and september in the county of Johnson on the third mondays in March and september in the county of Marion on the fourth mondays in March and september in the county of Hendricks on the second mondays in april and october in the county of Morgan on the third mondays in april and october in the county of Madison on the second mondays in May and november and in the county of Hamilton on the third mondays in May and november. The circuit courts of the above fifth judicial circuit in the counties of Shelby Bartholomew Johnson Morgan Hendricks Hamilton and Madison Shal each sit six Days if the business thereof require it in the county of Marion twelve Days if the business thereof require it and in the county of Hancock four Days at each term if the business thereof require it. Sec. 6. In the county of Randolph on the third mondays of february and August in the county of Wayne on the fourth mondays of february and August in the county of Union on the first mondays of March and september in the county of Fayette on the second mondays of March and september in the county of Rush on the third mondays of March and september in the county of Henry on the fourth mondays of March and september in the county of Delaware on the mondays succeeding the courts in the county of Henry and in the county of Allen on the second mondays of May and november. The circuit courts to be Holden As above in the sixth judicial circuit shall each sit six Days if the business thereof require except the said circuit courts in the county of Wayne and those courts shall sit Ever judicial Day until the commencement of the courts Iri the county of Union if the business thereof require it. Sec. 7. In the county of Knox on the first mondays of March and september in the county of Daviess on the third mondays of March and september in the county of Martin on the fourth March and september in the county of Greene on the first mondays of april and october in the county of Monroe on the second mondays of april and october in the county of Owen on the third mondays of april and october in the county of Putnam on the fourth mondays of april and october in the county of Clay on the first mondays of May and november in the county of Vigo on the second mondays of May and november and in the county of Sullivan on the fourth mondays of May and november. The circuit courts to be Holden As above in the seventh judicial Tuircuit shall each sit six Days if the business thereof require it except the counties of Knox and Vigo which shall each sit twelve Days if the business thereof require it. Sec. 8. All writs subpoenas or other process which May have issued from any circuit court since the last sitting thereof or which May hereafter Issue previous to this act being received in the respective counties shall be deemed and taken and Are hereby made returnable to the first Day of the first term of the several circuit courts to be Holden by virtue of this act and All suits pleas plaints prosecutions recognizance actions motions or other proceedings either civil or criminal which Are now pending or May hereafter be pending prior to the time this act shall be received in the several counties shall be taken up and acted upon at the first term of such court to be Holden under this act and be disposed of according to Law in the same manner As if no alteration had been made in the time of holding such court. Sec. 9. That the Secretary of state shall fort Worth cause the state Printer to print in pamphlet form three Hundred copies of this act and the act of this session dividing the state into seven judicial circuits and have the same ready for distribution immediately. All acts and parts of acts coming within the Purview of this act be and the same Are hereby repealed. This act shall take effect and be in Force from and after its passage. Ross Smiley speaker of the House of representatives. Milton Stapp president of the Senate. Approved january 28, 1830, . Supplement. That the circuit courts in the county of Elkhart shall be Holden on the third mondays of May and november and shall sit six Days if the business require it. Communication. For the journal. Messes editors the method of disseminating knowledge by Public debate is becoming More generally approved. It seems to be a revival of the ancient order of things. This was the method with a Little variation which Christ and his apostles adopted in advocating the truth. The four evangelists abound with debates which Christ had with the enemies of the gospel and the acts of the apostles furnish numerous instances of Paul s conflicts with the Heresi Arches of his Day and although the press was a powerful engine yet it was not principally relied on by the neither Calvin Zuinglius nor Knox Ever declined an invitation to debate the cause of Christ publicly and Martin Luther s Victory Over the Pope s Legate at Leipsic will Ever be remembered by protestants with thankfulness. Public debates have Ever been and will Ever continue to be the great machine for promoting re Ligum and Liberty. They awaken an attention to the subject in debate which nothing else can do. Such was the fact in reference to the debate which commenced in this place on the 21st, and ended on the evening of the 23d ult., Between or. Kidwell a Universal Ian and or. Ray a methodist preacher. The Assembly was Large and a deep interest in the subject was manifested. The disputants in some respects were equally and in others unequally yoked. Or. Kidwell had the advantage of his opponent in age practice experience and a Long studied acquaintance with the subject and in a general celebrity he has somehow obtained As the Champion advocate of universalism. These supposed qualifications gave him an Ascendancy Over his opponent in Public opinion before his arrival distressing to the friends of religion and which must have been appalling even to the dauntless courage of his Young antagonist. Neither appeared to have any acquaintance with the languages nor to understand the criticisms of Learned authors. Or. Kidwell made some efforts in this Way but he always reminded us of the lines Quot a Little learning is a dangerous thing drink deep or taste not the perennial Spring and it was not until or. Ray disclaimed All knowledge of the languages and insinuated that his opponent was taking a stand among the Learned that or. Kidwell informed the audience he had Pever enjoyed the privilege of a Public school More than three months. While due Praise was allowed him for attainments made by his own exertions the audience was not a Little disgusted that a Man so perfectly illiterate should attack with Savage fierceness such Learned giants As Clark Campbell Whitley and Parkhurst All of whom he glaringly misrepresented but especially the last. But when Parkhurst s definitions of the words in debate Aion and Aronius were read by or. Ray showing the first Means always existing and the second eternal without end and that Parkhurst gives this meaning to the word in the sloth chapter and 41st verse of Mattile a the text in dispute Mir. Kidwell exhibited symptoms of terror from which he never recovered. He indeed made a feeble Effort to regain his former ground by endeavouring to prove the predictions in the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew were All accomplished before and at the destruction of Jerusalem and in the lifetime of those persons who heard them delivered. But when it was replied that the phrase Quot this generation shall not pass away till All these things be fulfilled a Means the continuation of the jews As a distinct people that these chapters contain a two fold description 1st, of Jerusalem troubles and 2d, of the future judgment a that there Are characters in the parable of the ten virgins that cannot agree to the destruction of Jerusalem a Rand that when the son of Man cometh every Eye shall see him and they also that pierced him and All Kindreds of the Earth shall then Wail because of him a that he shall be seated on the throne of his glory and All nations from the beginning of the world shall be assembled before him a that he will Divide the righteous from the wicked a that the latter shall go away into everlasting punishment a and that Parkhurst says Quot Ajon a in this text Means eternal Xvi Hout end or. Kidwell was prostrated and we Hazard nothing in saying his friends were excessively mortified in and disappointed. Some who by profanity and of fice but not by intelligence were a Little More conspicuous than the rest had moved to strike out hell from the enacting clause and postpone the title indefinitely but they soon found that the motion to retain the of a c/ou.9f, Quot Gehenna Quot the place of future and endless punishment typified by the Valley of Glienna near Jerusalem was carried by a majority of 99 out of 100. The arguments from reason the general consent of Mankind from the fact that the doctrine has been incorporated into the jurisprudence of All civilized nations into the Laws and constitutions of our own country and that without it no dependence could be put in the solemnity of an oath if we recollect right were not touched. Possibly he May have had his reasons for this course but we Felt that it injured his cause for or. Kidwell will not deny that when it suits his convenience he has no scruples of conscience in exalting reason above the word of god. It. May also be remarked that or. Ray s arguments from the implications contrasts and insinuations of the scriptures were All passed by unnoticed and that much of or. Kidwell s time was taken up with complaining that his opponent was out of order and that he had offered nothing tangible nor were these complaints silenced until the persons chosen to preside informed him he was out of order himself and the Young Champion in the air tone and gesture of a dauntless Soldier of the Cross advised his opponent to change his phraseology and instead of saying he had offered nothing Ai i ble to say that what he he had Offe red was too tangible. We heard no More of these complaints during the debate. Upon the whole we were much disappointed every Way. There is less plausibility in the scheme than we had imagined and crediting general Rumour we believed or. Kidwell was Well qualified to advocate the cause of universalism but his abilities have been As much overrated As the unbelieving israelite overrated the muscular Powers of Goliah. His personal appearance is unacceptable his voice peevish and disagreeable his gestures stiff and awkward and his frequent attempts to ingratiate himself into the affections of the audience by untimely and extravagant encomium were for him peculiarly unfortunate but above All his ironical allusion to the pious instruction of his father who he told us thundered damnation into his ears transforming himself into a materialist or destruction St whenever it was necessary to evade the arguments of his opponent and his repeated attempts to Essen the Confidence of the audience in the common version of the scriptures convinced Many not Only of his infidelity but that Universal redemption is not taught in the Bible. Or. Kidwell s method of reasoning would justify a violation of the 7th commandment and legalize murder or the it or any other crime if the person died in the overt act for surely it cannot be pretended in this Case that the person would be sufficiently punished in this life. If his friends were chagrined and fretted Many who were in doubt before Are now firm believers m future and endless punishment if. It May be however some will still be disposed to give him the Victory and i would Only give it is my opinion that a few More such victories would ruin the cause of infidelity forever and if i am not mis taken his having Only 12 or 13 hearers the succeeding Sabbath was More painful to his feelings than his a onion punishment was to the jews. These criticisms Are All considered just because when theological disputants per sent themselves in this attitude before the Public their persons attain agents

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