Wednesday, October 18, 1820

British Press

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British Press (Newspaper) - October 18, 1820, London, Middlesex , LOivbON, 'Wm^1SSfyWy^'WF^H^S, 1820. Pkh;k 7d. >j^his evening; wednesday, bet., 18, Jt win be revived Shakspcai'pV Play of dYMBfeLINE. Britons-Cymbermi?, Mr. Egerton ; Polyilorp, !VIr.' Ab-bolt; Ckilwali Ml-; Dnruget; Cloten, M r. Farley ; Morgan, JMrr Chapman;; LflcMialus Ponthinnns, Mr.C. Kemble (his first nppearaiire in that cliiiracter). ftumans-lachimi), Mr. Macready (his first appearance in ihat character); Cains, Mr. Vales; Varun, Mr. Jef. ferien. Quei^n, Mrs. Faiicit ; Helen, MiitsShaw; Jpiogeu, MisB Fbote. After wfaicb, GarricfsDramatic Jtonance-of CY..MOJJ.. Merlin, Mr. ^-erlon; Cymon, Mr.,Duru!>el; iDorjis, Mr. Listori; Linco, 'Mij.Taylor.' Sylvia, Miss Greene ; f^atima, Mr8;iGibb�^ Dorcas, Mrs. U�ion. ' Doring the recess OifeTJieaire has been entirely new de-cofat ed. an d: tmbetlislied. ...AlVAvattifioximty beobad for tfae^Seasou, or nigblly, of ajr,JJra^idoiij at.tbe Box-jOffic*., , Places for ihe'Boxe^ to be taken, of Jlilr. Brandunj gt 4be ftw4?ffit^#aH->tfM^TiW:,Tetf  A Private Bojr'may be Sad, nightly, by auplicaVion at the Box Office. , ; Boxes, 7a ; Second Price, 3s. 6d<-Pit, 3�. 6il.; Second Price, 29.-Gallery, 28.; Second Price, Is.-Upper Gal-'lery, Is.; Se(:oud Price, fid. ^ The Doors will be opciied a( Halfpast Six o'clock, and the Play begin at Seven. To-morrow, .She Sloops to Cnnqoer-after which a new Ballel, called Pygmnliun-and The U�af-Luvrr. Oil Friday,, The Siraiiger: llie Stranger, Mr. C. Kemble (his firiit apprar.incp in llial charaetrr); Mrs. Haller, fay a Youujt Lady (her first appearance in llic Metropolis)-after which, a new Musical Farce, called A Race for a Wife. On Tuesday, The Comedy of Errors: Lnciana, Miss M. Tree (her first appearance this season). ACARD.-The AHverliser, a respectable'person, minid he happy to treat with any resperlublv geulleinan bavins; any snm uf Money at his immediate command, and wonld he willing to disrouiit good Bills, fur r:iiih only, that will hear the most minute invesligution at 'all times \ or any GriitU'm:iii ti'.iviiig a i^iim from 100/. to ],000i. mny, iviihout ri<k, inin it to an unusual advantage uithout Ihe discounting of bills, if they wiinid prefer it. A handsome compcnsaiioii will be allowed for any sum ^flared in the hando of the Advertiser, with ^uod ref<;reiices, ami a raiidid explanaliiin givin. Apply hy IcMtr, po�t paid, to Mr. O P. S. at Mr.Wat-'Uii's, 409, SliMud, wbirli will meet with due atteuliun. AMICABLE .<!OCIETV, FOR INSURANCE OF LIVES, SEUJIiANT'S-INN, FLEKT-STREET, LONDON, IN-CORPORATED BY QUEEN ANNE, 1706. rglHE UltlECIORS ItHve now to offer to tlie JL atienlion of Ihe Public, TABLES of RATES, which been laiely complelfd, for ihe JNSUKANCEof LIVES, at the various Ages fiom 8 lo 72; either for the wbole Life; any specific niiinber of Year=; the contingency of one per* sou snrviving another; or far the joint continuance of the Lives of Iwo Persons, the Insurance payable on the Death of either. losurancrs in Ibis Office are eiTecle'l in certain cases at a rrdurliuu uf nearly 20{iir rent, and on the whole ou terms greatly favourable lo the Insured. Insurances may be efiected frura 200{. to &,00(H. and every kind of liiRuraoce, however short ttie period of coutinnance, U entitled tu a participation in the pecuniary advantages accruing to the Corporation. These advantages are wholly appriipfialrd 10 the liemfit iif the Insurrd, in proportion to the amount uf each liisuraiLCe, as circumstauces arise in the year in which the death happens. Of the Claims upon tills Society which became payable in rciiprcl i'f liisuraiicis on the Lives of Persons who �lird in I lie last Year, Fifiy-ihrre Shares having made Fifieeo Yearly I'aymrnts or mure, received additions amuunting to 140 jier Ceot -Six Shares having made Eleven; Three Shares having- made Ten ; and Three Shares Eight Yearly Payments, 1011 per Cent.-and Thirly-tliree Shares having made .Seven or a smaller iiiimbpr of Yearly Payments, received 80 per Crhl. in adililiun lo the Sums originally insured. Abstrncls of the Charters and By-Laws, with Tallies of ' the Prruiinms, may he had at the OIBce, where ailendauce is given doily from Nine till Three o'Cluck. By Older of the Cniurl of Dirictors, J. PENSAM, Registrar. THE QUEEN'S TRIAL. HOUSE OF LORDS, Tuesday, Oct. 17. The Lord Chancellor entered the House at a few minnlea bi fore ten o'clock. Prayers were rend, and Ihe names calle rucerdiiigs aijainst her Majesty Ihe Queeii.-I'lie p;ipeis were ordered to he printed. The Counsel werelhen called in. TJie Jjird Chaiicelliir then proceeded lo inform their I^ird-ships that lowards.ihe close of the pruceedin Bmli>S!>uining 'what need not be qii^s-tioued,:lbal iheibail; offered lemplalions to wituesse* lo�p-|iear-TSiip|M)aiiig also that Bo Jirtwf tovldibe madeuuf^lbpt any of ihei .vainesses .wlip'hnij ;be(;n examined ;.for the |vg.| sPcniioii' ha^ beeii corrtipted; in such a; cose coVIJ" eridtecc' JJi-'admiited. Id Aew Ibaf auy 'atlcmpt' blld lieeiji inftde ^ lo'Wrrtipl'^ the' wituipies' iflitf �pjie�rtd SriheiSS^/w^^^ rr�^-7p,i.TiM q,ce�. aid be were .be prosecutor, rxamlned in chief for the Plaintiff in Ihe civil action or in support of'the chargesof the indictment, from which it wss lo I.e inferred.Ihal.A.iB. had been employed to roMecf witnesses for the Piainiifl' or the prosecnlion, and if the Defendant in a civil, action or under indjclment, offered (itoof Ihat A. B. had gone'abiuit lo induce C. D. to give.roiropt testimony in support of Ihe civil action or criminal charges, no witness called as a witness in thief for the indiclmeni, ,orlhe civil action having imdri-'ieroas-pxartiinslion jiven .any proofiif A. B.'s corrupt agency, wonld the practice ofihc C his question as information'necessary .to satisfy Ihe doubts and scruples of his own mind, which, he admitted, the House was bound to consider, he bad no ohjeclion lo the queali'nn being referred tii the Judges. Bat he must repeat that wbirh he had observed yesierday, that if Ihe Jndges'shonid decide that the' praeiice of their Courts would not ndmlt' sdrli evhlenec as had been'offer, cd, standing in Iheir present sjluatiao, under ibe- pcen. .li!��'!.cjr�w*>siaTice� whicb ^ had. copie lo� their. ^kuoKj leugc tb>y were- boitud to go into the investigation proposed. He niusi, therefore, whiKver might be the de-icisiort of the Judges on the question, still urge their Lordshifis lo pursue .tlie inquiry. The Case was neither .more nor less lhau that of yesterday. The facts were slrongerthan before, but the material question was ihe same. If Ihe strict and technical rules of other Conns excloded such infurmaiion from the evidence, Ihe rnle mnst be applied equally lo day as yesterday. For though Vilmar. call was an active agent in Ihe business uf the Com. mission, in whirli Colonel Brown and Mr. Powell had been cn2aKe il process evidence should be tendered of attempts lo corrnpl Juslice by procuring false lesli-muny, whether Ihe admissiuii were fixed on piinciples or nol, Ihe ends of justice required Ihat ihey should not lurn Iheir backs on the inquiry into thai evidence. If they did, they would nut appear in the eyes of Ihe public in do ihiil justice which it was their wish, as ii was llieir duly, lo �xecii le. The Earl of Liverpool said that he had no doubt his Noble and Learned Friend would have 110 ohjeclion lo siiikc out those lernis uf bis question whirh included the ci'iisideraliuii of a civil action, lie reserved his opiiiiuii on the other branch of Ihe qneslion itiiiil he heard that of the Jmlges; but he tlinughi he could easily point out the fnl-hicy, if he mighl use ihe term, of llie Noble EhiI's propo. silioii for going iiiio a rase of general corriipliou, having no appliealloii in)io'eili:i)cly lo ihe case before ihe House, and nol being of awy wviahi, if proved, to affect the issue of Iheir proceeding. This was a rriminal proceeding, and Ihat only. He could have no objection al any other lime to go iuio an inquiry as to the coiidoci of the Milan Cummissiiin; hui was ihis Ihe proper time lor that inquiry ? The Noble Lord said, that if Ihis >vas a quesliou of suborning wilucFses in the cause, ooghl not the Counsel lo be al-hmed to examine to i( ? He was ready to admit, if it could be shewn that any wilness had been corrupted who had been examined before them, then (speakingditfidently as an unprofessional man) he would allow such cvnlence mighl be ad-milted. But Ihe question here wn�, nol of a conspiracy to corrupt witnesses who had appeared at Ihe bar, but to corrupt witnesses that had not apjieared to give eviileiire for the Bill. That one conspiracy would not be equnlly iniquitous as the other he was not contending; but all he would say was, Ihat was not the question before them. He Iboiight that Ihe agency .should he clearly proved, and ihat Ihe witnesses ought to be some of those who had bceu examined al Iheir Lordships' bar. What he priucip.illy rose . for was to impress on Iheir Lordships one considerutioii.- If they were-to go into an inquiry as tu llie conduct of the Milan Commission, he llioueht some nniire oii:;lil to have been given to Vilmarcali aod lo Colonel B.own, and whtther it was possible to admit Ihe evidence now offered withnut admitting all the evidence which Ihey might think proper lo offer in explanation of iheir conduct; that be considered would follow ,18 a necessary consequence of ihe admission of such leBlitnony. He had no objection lo Vilmarcali and all 'the Commissioners heiug railed to the bar and eximiiied, bul the donbt he had was whether it would be relevant lo Ihe present inqiiry. \Mt& Erskine said, that he not only had nol changed the opinion which he had delivered yesterday, hut having considered Ihe case, and recalled to bis memory ibe practice and prinriplea which were ouce familiar lo his mind, he was ron-firrord in the upinion Ihat his Noble Friend (Earl Giey) wa< right, and that tlnir Lordships ought to receive Ihe evidence - which had been offered. He Iboiighl it strange that, aficr the admission bad been made that the House were buuud by no. technical rules,-but were lo aitain the Irnihand administer anbslantiai juslice, that the admission of this tesli. inoliy should be uppuscd, and in that anninalous proceeding �11 the disadvantages were still tbrusi npuii the Queen, and ioil* of. Ibe advaiiWgcs accorded to ber; Nolwithstandiug ,lb!ll ailiniasiun, nnd the admission (reluclaiilly itiaile). ibat libtbing could Diake amends to the illustrious accused for ilie absence of a nialcriol witness, it was not only wished 'Ib^^ftrten ihem ddwii to tliii rules of law, but lulri^les of lav lirtall^ mapplicable 16 the pnseut case. Si^pposing W cnmlmi iDdiCimoni; were preferred fur suburbiiig; i^il- Ihe existence of ilie conspirii^ f"an'd.liavi'iis proved (bill, be 'would go nil and'prove the al^Ts.againsi ihe pitrliciilii''ii^d|vi-duals That'was Hhe way �*i<"Wible"(imri.earn�.l-Frtelid actually did proceed in Ihe IrraMfiHardy.'al Ihe Old.Bailey. The defendant had objeGleijl.<J|i�lL,Dvne .41/the acta proved were made to copnert will), bi^,; and tjie^Learued Judge who presided bail saiil, thai Ihe'cjiarge waj.'of tKO parts- nnd the Prosecutor might' DrM' pi-pve liie'eiiiiett Brlie8 ^as' well aa he could. So In the presentiwse:Uhey'.'misM-first prove Ihe arts of conspiracy ag.iin�t,ber ftlsjesiy by Vi|niarcati, and afterwards bring it liume l(> Coionr| Brqwu ,iind the others if ihey could. It w'aa not iicCESsary to prdve the an. tluiriy being given to brilfc ; ta't ^Jbii ninst tirpye the acta tif the agent, and that was^iiffirient; ' Ithtidbeen-said; that Ihis reliited Itt witnesses not examined'at their Lordships' bar; but on referring to the evid.siice, .vaiiqus acts , uf subornalion were proved agaiuslRastelli, and how could it he known that the witae84rB':wno had b^n, exaihined were not alsu blasted and'corrUpt d .in ibe sameinaiSoer -b's those he had dealt wilb ? Be tboiit|bt.lhey wirfl-'(.Hear)- for he judged that no persii^iS^)^^'<lepaT|.,froiii; Ihe^ltutb without xnme srnislirr-i aod-wffeu'hB loiinvl'lhat ilie wil nessea,had spnkru what be coiisidered totally aod wickedly false, he was corap-lled lo altribbte'it to corruption. If their Lordships divest themselves of ihe right to probe and prol examine into the alleged conspiracy, Ihey might nndunhledly do so; but nil man who was nut a fit inhabitant aif Bedlam would say, that if the evidence were gone into Ihey were not compeleni lo judge of the probabilily or.impruhabi-lity of the charge ; if Ihey were not they ought to retire from the silualions which they now filled. As lo the prnbahility of Ihe allegation of conspiracy, he wunid ask the Noble Earl opposite if be knew, before these proceedings began, whni he knows how, whether he would have gone into it at all?-{Hear, hear.)-\n conclusion, Ihe Noble Lord said, he wouhl implore Ihe House not lo deride upoii those rules uf Ihe Conns below, since those Cnnrla of Justice never had lo try such a caose as Ihe present. All that' was asked now was lo shew the existence of a conspiracy, after which it uniild he ciideavourcd lo bring home the charge against those persons who bad bruuglit the present proceedings before Parliament. The Earl of Lauderdale said, Ihc qneslion appeared lo him. 10 be, whether Ihe House would abide by the rules of evidcAre of Hie Courts of Low or iint. If the excellence of those rules were admitted in Ihe Courts below, he desired taifcutiw why they were not applicable lo the highest as well as the lowe-l Court of Judicature. The doubt 00 his minil was, lhal the evidence (and he had cai-efully looked it over) only applied lo Vilmarcali, as Ihe agent of the Milan Commission in 1820 ; when it appeared from the evi-dtnce of Mr Power, that the Milan Coniiuissiou vnsfanctiu 'nllicio in 1S19. Mui( then couM it be revivified in 1820? l-'rom the evidence of Vlurenlio Darnzzn, with whom Vilmarcali convrrsrd, it appeared th;it at the lime of the rnnversallun he mighl he considered as the agent of Colonel Brown. On ihese grounds he was for referring it to Ihe Judges for llieir opinion,'by which opinion, until his Noble and Learned Fiiend could convince him Ihat Ihe established rules of evidence observed in the Courts belnw wertt not the iiest calculated for the discovery of trnth, he shouhl, although as a Member of that House he did �not thiuk himself at all limes bound hy such di cisions, feel a disposition tu regulate his judgment on this question; The Earl of Roaslyn felt much diffidence in addressing Iheir Lordships on ihisqiieslioii, after the very able and convincing arguments which Ihey had beard from his Noble and l.earncd Fiieud (Lord Erskine), and it was wilh great reluc. tauce that he ruse lo express fait^ difference ]n. ppiuioi] wilh. bisNable Friend" (Lord"L3ude�fele]f, the whole of whose conduct IhronghonI Ihese proceedings he highly esteemed. His Noble Friend had said, " Ought you not lo be bound by Ihe rules of evidence in the Courts below, becsose the experienceof ages had shewn Ihat they were in general Ihe best caleulaled for the discovery of truth ?" He (Lord Rosslyn) admitted the fad, and be admilled Ihe reason ; he thought the rules of Ihe Courts helow were the best adapt, ed for regulating the proceedings between parties fairly opposed, and he could well feel Ihe necessity of not allowing any deviation from those rules in general cases, on account of any peculiar hardship ihey miglil impose on either of those parlies, because any benefit which mighl be so gained by an indiviilual was not lo be put in competition with the public iiiteresl in the steady and fixed course of the administration e.f juslice. But in ihis proceeding, though Ihey had on one side a parly whose whole interest was at slake, yet on Ihe other there was no parly who ciiuld at all be prejudiced hy any deviation from the ordinary rules. They were not now trying an issue al the suit uf the Cruwu, or a private infurmaiion, the mailer of which fell within Ihe fair scope and known limits ui the established law; but they were engaged in the consideration ofa new law, the penalties (if wliirli were to be applied to nets for whicb the individuel charged wilh them was nol nmenable to any law previously ex-isling; for it ha se,;who be peiVTVerpetV!^le t ;(heir jLordsbipi ilMvetiBixdunleil ;it L B bigb crime,-ana ft daring breatjb ;uf ihe ipriv^^l^Kcs of iliat I House ? Auil wddid ibey ubi bare adoptet] eterjr ineans  Ihat b^ered, and ptirsned every cdrirte Ihiit promised ''^'f^ to the proof of such guilt ? When a'conspirac'y l� iftcvive them byfdtiie evidence was-denounced,' he cbiild-nol I�i�t Ihinfc ibeir Lordships were honiid 16 g;a into.''4he proof of lhal conspiracy, whether it were, the act oftbc.:p3rly proinoting the Bill or of bis agents, or not. Tbe eviiitence before'Iheir Lordships bad establislied the agency of VilnJar-tali as c'onnrcfed with Col, Brown; Mr. Powell Bad iuu, by.avuwing himself as itm agent. Tberrfore the rircnm-stances he had just sUled, Ic'ft no doubt of ihe agency. That saved him, in some degree, from the iieeeasity of'goib? into be'consifteriiion of the extraordinary qncstion. which bad been started, beibec ' Ihe Milan Commitsion'-was-not totally 'uncunneGlrd wilh; and. allogether olien.ilo Ibis cause-;! If .tliey--were fonnd lo be employc�l,I�fiV�hem-selves or l|i abt-of eobipiraey cou|^'exfst;.::aini>be' tMaiila�i jMJ^nfi, Jafeljt f)br..'4ihy-^ii froinJiiimilarcoiuiuracy.'^aiai^lb^^ now 10 go into Ibe proof of that which was here.den6qnced. If persmu were alluwed In go abroad and collect witnesses iu a foreign country-to lake Ibeir depositions-to swear Ibejn lolbnae depositions; and if, upon the ground ofUheir not being-a party to any measure founded on sucb evidence, they were to be coasidered as so far alien to the cause Ibal no evidence of any corruption of which ihey might have been guillycould he admitted on the proceedings in support iif such meaiuref he would say that would be to narrow their proceedings hy rales nol of law, hut of injustice; and Ihey would act disgracefully, and in a manner highly derogatory from Ibeir own character, and degrading tu the justice of the country. I.,ord (Manners in a few words expressed his opinion, that a person employing Commissioners abroad 10 do lhal which he could nut do himself, became hound hy the acts uf snch Commissioners, and also of Iheir agents. But ho wished to have the opinion of the Judges on the leg.-il queslion, nnl their Lordships might afterwards consider how fur that ought to bind them in Ihis particular case. The Earl uf Donnughmnre said, lhal if he thooghl every person who had taken the same part as he had done in respect of this Bill, was lo he put down as approving of the conduct of the ageuls of Ihe Milan Commission; if these feelings were lo be allrihuted to those Noble Lords who sup-pnrleil the Bil', be for one wuiild not have been an advo-raie for it. He had always looked on it as a grand and im. porlant inquiry, aod h'c was happy that they had the assistance of Ihe Learned Judges. He did not agree with Ihe Niible and Learned Lord when he said, llie greater Ihe iati. lude which was given to the evidence the more he would be satisfied. It was only what was proper lo he done in Ihis great cause they were to cunsidfr; they were silling as the greatest tribunal in the country, assisted by tlie Learned Judges, and if Ihey received improper evidence it would belaying down a pn cedent for the Courts below. Adinil-tiog this person was an agent uf the Milan Cnmniissioli, and bad misconducted himself, were Iheir Lordships prepared 10 visit his gnill on those who had presented this Bill to their Lordships ? They were nol silting for the purpose of trying o conspiracy, but of coming to a just eonclusion on the evidence in support and against the Bill 00 Iheir iSble. Hereafter if il was necessary to inqnire into the conspiracy, he would enter into Ibat inquiry, and pay as much atienlion, and give it as much assistance as any Noble Lord around him, and he was convinced if ibal inquiry ever did lake place, lhal Ihe Noble Earl with Ihe blue ribband (Liverpool) would come out of it perfeclly unsullied. They were now in possession of who were llie parlies iu this case; ibcy knew who the accused was, and ibat the accusers were the ftliiiisters uf the Crown. It certainly was very happy lhal ihat dilHcully bad been got over.-(A latiffh)-His Lordship said be wuuld repeal that il was very happy that the diffirnlly had been got over, for il would save iheir Lordships from hearing qiiolalions on the subject both in pruse nnd verse He was far from not adinitling Ibal those quotations shewed great abilily, whether they were seliscted by the person using Ihem, or foriiishcd lo bini by some kind friend, he cuuld nol help saying, thank God, Ihe cause for using Ibem was over I Earl Grosvenor-This certainly is a subject of the greatest importance, in whatever view it considered, and he . would very shortly st-ile his reasons for the opinion he had come lo. He agreed it was important, at all times, lo have the opinion of Ihe Learned Judges ; but he would tell Iheir Lordships, let the opinion of the Learned Judges be what it might on this subject, be would be slill of opinion that the question ought lo be put lo the witness. He had not before staled his opinion on this subject, because il was much belter done by his Noble Friends near him. He would nol disguise his real aeiitimeuts ; lie always thought tiie present proceeding was contrary to Ihe Consiilutiun of the country, and of all law. Having made up his opinion on this must material p<dnl, he considered any other part uf the proceed, ings as deserving only a minor consideration, fur after her Majesty was permitted lo return lo this counlry the present prosecution ought never lo have been insliluted,fur it rested with his Majesty whether Ihe Queen Consort should ever be crowned wilh him. lu regard lo Ihe immediate queslion nniler Iheir Lordship.s' cunsideralion, he would agree that they ought tu confine themselves as nearly as possible to the rules of evidence of courts oflaw ; hut if there ever was a case whicb required precedents lo be departed from, this was thai case. TbruughonI the whole business, it was impossible nol lo fiud Ihat Vilmarcali was an agent from the com-lueiieement of it. Il cerlaiii'y was not denied, but he was told he was not a party to the case. He wuuld ask their Lordships how be cuuhl be a party? He could not he brought forward as a witness, fur he was so clulhed wilh crime Ihat his evidence wuuld not be received at their bar.-{Hear, hear.)-Was he to be lobl then that Ihis was not the time tu inquire into the conspiracy? he wooi'd tell their Lordships this was the lime, aod Ihe only time, that ihe inquiry should be made, for it wasihe lime when ibe conspiracy began lo de. velopeilself. Waail when the evidence had been gone through, and the effects of il fell by the accused, that Ihe inquiry into the conspiracy was tu he made ? He, for one, would say No. It had been already proved by two witnesses, ibat Rastelli had offered money to persons lo give evidence against the royal accused, and Ihat afterwards lie was sent out of the counlry. Whether he was sent out through proper or improper motives it is nut for me lo say; but it is in evideuce before your Lordships that he has breu sent out of the conn, try, and .that by a responsible agent on Hie part of Ihe Bill- and liien is it because Vilinarcdti has not been called as a wilness Ibal Ihe conspiracy is nol to he inquired into? If be was in the country could ihey detain him in it? It was proved to Iheir Lordships lhal Ihey could not, by Rastelli being sent out uf it. lu the early part of Ihe proceeding he had proposed that a short Bill should he passed in the other House uf Parliament, to prevent Ihe witnesses from leaving Ihe country until the truth of their evidence bad been inquired into. On ihat occasion he was told lhal such a ihing never bad breu heard of. The Noble Earl opposite (Liverpool) had said it would be quite unnecessary, and gave his assurance Ibal Ihe wiriiei.s''s, at any lime, would be forthcoming; and he would ask their Lordships, how was it then that Rastelli had been sent out uf the country? If Vilmarcati was here, Ihere was no doubt Ihey wo^ld keep him uu more than Rastelli. Then the course now offered lobe pursued by her- Majesty's Counsel was the only hunourable uue for their Lurdships to pursue; it wuuld prove that they were nol standing uu strict te'i-bnical forms, but ihat in- ihis grave inquiry it was Iheir inlenliou 10 do juslice lu nit parlies. If the Learned Judges, whose opinions he had always reverenced, ahuuld decide that Ihe wilness should put be examined on this poiiil, be would slill consider it the duty of their Lord, ships lo make the inquiry; and however il might burl their feeliugs tu differ from'the Jodgesi-it was still tbeir duly lo see' Ui�t juiilice was ilniiei lu the Royal Accused. I Locd A^desdsle-The, Noble J^rl who bid just sal down'btnl told ibeir Lordships Ibal he bad made up / lijs. mind on the whole question, aiid it was inipos-sihie that he could be induced to sweive from ihe opinion he bad come to-the question fur their Ixirdship�' .consideration at present was coiifiined. in iner' ly wbe-iher a questioo slionid be put lo Ihe Juil^rs fur iheir legal assistance and opinion, of putting 0 q.jestlon to the wiluess at tile bar. The arguTOent of the Noble Enrl did not go Jo this point, it mighl tend lusonie other view of ihe case, and his reason fir making use of that argiiMieni wh< best known to himself. Their Lordships wuiii'i e llowe(l as closely as possible the rules uf Ihe Courts beluw, as 10 giving evidence, and if the rules df the Ctiurls helow were nut goud, the suoner they Wire done away with the bclier. II tlie question was put to the Judges, whellicr such, evidence would be admilled into llie Ciiurls below, and lliey decideLl Unit it mighl, would il not be ulore s-.itisfaclury 10 Iheir Lurilshiji-;, who mighl entertain some slight iloubts uu the sulijei-t, than if they had come to ihat decision wtih'jiit ibe opniuin of iheLeanieil Judges? So on ihc other side, those wljo hid Jouhf^ whether the evidence ought nut lo be reccived,wnuld ihey not be more satisfied if ihe Judges dcciilcd lhal it was not^ received, asit would put an end lo lhei^ douhls?' Alihou;li much had been said about Bills of Pains and I'm^lties, ihey had nulhiiig to do wilh Ihe subject in discussiun. Some of ihe witnesses had given evidence which, he admilled, w:)s very suspicions, and ought to be watched narrowly; yet the language Ihat had been used regarding theni was Unjust and improper. If.the Iwo Houses of Parliament cuniil be bruugbl to be guided by the rules of the law of evideace of the CuUriB below, in cases uf the Bills of Pains aud IVnal. lies, it would be a proud day for the counlry, aud hereafin-hc would net be sfraid lo say, Ibat it would he said that :t Bill of Pains and Penalties was the most lenient way of proceeding as it regarded the accused. Aluch had been said oil the decision their Lordships hail come 10 yesterday.; on Ihat occasion he had staled, if liic Judges were of a cuii-trarj opinion to hini he wonld be satisfied ; Ihat that was -i question that he felt no doubt oil, and therefore he did not press for Iheir or..iaioii ; but here lie had a iJoiibi, and a con-siderableoue, for which reason he would nol follow ihe same course. There were doubts siilKcieiit in his mind on Iht* subject for him to move that lie qiieiiiou should be put to the Learned Judges for their decision, whether in a cniiiiiiai case A. B. could give evf^enee as lu CD, nut a party 111 Ihe tase, offfriug a bribe to E- F. lu give evidence against ihe accused ? The Marqnis of I.ansdowa objected lo the question beings sent to the Judges f ii put lu the Learned Judges for Iheir opinion, and ihey h.ul given it, their Lord.hips went from ihat decisun, aud put another quesliou lo the witness. It was to be found ii( p-agu 46-2 uf the minutes. The question' was put to Sacchi by lAs Majesty's Attorney-General, * Did any one Of the IVlarreMis in L.onilon make any proposition lu you, as lo your not curbing forward as a wilness against the Queen r' He would ask what was Ihe object uf this question? It could be for ho oilier purpose than to discover if Marietti was au agent dftheQueeu. Now I ilo contend that in substance you did bring out precisely that which the Counsel under the upiuiun UI' Mi-Judges were not periiiilled to bring out, namely, ilo-iur.-versaliun that passed between Sacchi and Marietti. Ii un's no olher reason but ihat suspicion arose iu your Lun:-ships' mind, lhal Marielli might be an ageut uf the Queen, aud unduly employed, allhuugb thrre was no proof of such employment, your Lordships were induced, fur the purpose of eliciliug Ihe truth, tu discover what passed bitween Marielli, ill cuuversatiou wilh Sacchi, on this subjeet. My Lords, I say, when it is supposed and allegid by the Counsel at the bar, ibat they can prove Ibe exisieiice of a cnnapi� racy, il is your duty lo admit il lo be gone into at the time when it is must important. Can auy Nuble l..urd suppose lh�l Ihis alleged conspiracy ought 10 be inquired into, and yet contend ihat it ought nut lobe inquired into now ?- f Hear, hear J-I say, if it is nol inquired into now, that it never can he iuquirid inio at all-{Hear, hear-J-If il is inquired iiitu herealler, nuue of. Ihe good < ffecis can result frum it. Gouil God, my Lurds ! if a conspiracy has existed foe Ihe purpose i.f producing evidence against ibe Queen, are we upuii lhal evidence tu depose the Queen, and having deputed her from Ihe throne, are we lo turn ruund and say, now we will inquire inlu the conspiracy ?-(�o<)<f cheert)-^ V/e have all beard of the Earl of Warwick, Ihe maker and deposer of Kings, aud I suppose we are lo become the tuskers aud depusera of Queens, ur rather Ibe depnsrrs and makera of Queeus-^ur,6n( of sH^vte are W go into the iiiquiry,

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