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Dublin Journal (Newspaper) - December 9, 1802, Dublin, Dublin i T afford nny vief or affiance to thu Country What be exe51e9 from in the face Cf the ficknCfs artel difturbances of Doming What hopes crifc be formed from while the French were in pofTdiin of tlieir newly ac IJwArwLLJuifiana With refpecM to the time when Martinique was ceded to he could not but conTirlelr it Ji able to But if lyiiniftCTS werethen fo pofitive as 10 an approach it furely was noi a time to furrender to the enemy the key of the WeftIndia iHs was now told of a plan in agitation to cede the Ifland of Cothin to Cochin w as of no value whatever us a trading and France there fore only wifh for it as a place of con fitujited for negotiating with theCounry of And the French did not Xjonceal every thing to be aimed at the fubverfion the Bririfh power tu He by that upow the he did provided fufficitnt reafons given for it if t Houfe did not com pel Miniflerito fet them right in the explanation they ought to he fhould certainly move to have u prernfdirafed for no fooner A i p p re fe mation made of butthe Court of wuhotifihe fmalleft hafiened to repair the by fending all the perfnnt concerned in the inftiTt immediately to and tpokwery Hep to afford the mofl complete and immediate That the fntisfaclion was muft be evident from the the Officer himfelf was fatisfied and made no and we all know that individuals of that defcriptibn feel with delicacy and extremefenfibi liry upon every point of regard to the Mediterranean Addington proceed ed to late that the Right Gentleman was as defective there as in many of his other for the Britifh Fleet in that qunter was certainly at v fuperior to any force that could within a reafonnble interval be poffibly brought againft We have faid ten sail of the Line under the command of Sir Richard Bickerton i and here I am hapjy in the opportu nity of contradicting which have been in duftrioufly fpread by from their and by others podibly from very dif ferent that the French had 27 Sail of the 1 he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Line at in readinefs to put to Incoc that he did not rife in confequence of the tradition to this illfounded I can held nor did he think it necef ffity any thing to the imputation of difre and The Right Gentleman 1 hitn wish bring filem on the other liarid charged the Right Gent eman with being piejent un his feat laft night when the vote of not having faid a fingle word Tclaririgeitnerlohis own objections to the filenee of In that refpefl he vras himfelf no doubt an acceflVy to all the contempt and dif grace he fo much complained he Jaidr tutd never exprefled anyconfident ejcpecta tions from the pacific views of and when at was urged againft them that large Military Efta were not kept though they them felveson the fir ft confefled the nfceflity of to iheuntTueand unjuft charge angide againft them of having diftwnded a conli part of the Military that none of the Military had been with rthe exception of and that they then though were fufficienr in the fjrft year of the In onthe of the gaNanr Admiral that the French have nnt at Toulon more thanjfa of the Line ready for that at Car thete is a flill fmaller tie niedhis ever having that we had obtained the guarantee of for the manner in which ar rangements were made for the Government of though he might have faid that we had obtained the guarantee of Qrenville here acrofs the right by that he had hot reprefemed Ivm as made fuch a ftatement in regard to Ruflia I it order to fhew the nature of that danger represented as threatening us from hefluted that at the commencement of the War the Naval Force of the three Powers France in 1797 79 Holland but having built 13 more in the courfc of the the total was 40 80 Ships of tlis Amount in the whole to 1991 the refult of our operations in the progrefs of days aftcnvarda the neceffary eftimates uere j the War thefe were reduced to The of Inft tKniiffh nnricis the Combined fat prefrnt the and Tuefday though notices not eonfHered as abfoluely yet notice was activity that the Vote required ior the enfuing year would be were moved for He had on that cccafion reafon to from the difpofitions manifefifd by cettain that fome quef would fome difcuflion and rihe was thtn prepared and ready to enter into any debate or 5hich circumftances Call on his part any indication of neglect of d i tv In the reference made to the of His Majefiy exprefled his con in the good intentions of other and number of Seamen voted After the peace of the Army was fuft reduced to then to and afterwards to fur Guards and Garrifohs The reduiftion of Ssamen to at that he woultHrot deny to have been jufttfiable by the fcnfe of fecuriiy nhen entertained j but at the prtfcnt reriud he Invned that he faw no reafon to be much prejudiced favour of the pacific difpofitions of For jhat reafon he could have propofed any confiderable reduction in the Military Force laft For the prtfsm year the vote was for Seamen and in a very few days a Right Friend of his tie Secretary at War would have to fubrriitto them a propofal for a much larger Military Eftablifhment than rerhaps was in the of bVcaufe in the rrefent Mate of Europe it was thought necefTary to a grater defeiifive force than on ordinary oc Cafionv He never he hsidany reliance on his reliance was upon and that could only be derived a confidence of The Honourable Gentleman fcemcd to thinlt that Miniflers fhouldbe compelled ti gue their reafons for maintaining fuch a The Right Gentleman himfelf thought the number required fcanely but if he want ed to find ftne of the reaf ns for keeping up a great Naval he will find them partly in fome peculiar for preff nt employed a very confiderable Naval Foice This made it neceflary for Eng land to maimain a force in the fame bat it fc preferve a force at in order to reinforce thefqwadrons on the Weft ftation liut wiflied more to reft the the broader principle of the pe ftate of and the neceffity and expe cy of fuih a powerful fyfitm as uld diency 39 68 13 i the 106 243 By this if wriuld that our excefs over ihe Combined Nivy was no Iefs than 60 fail of the exolufive of a very great fupeiiority of fmnller veife The whole refult rhat the we perior that we had the fame fupeiiority at and that fuch mealcres had been taken by thepre fent Board f more ihipsof the line could be fent out and a grcarer number upon any great Was he a fupineneis or indolence ihe parr of his MajeHys Miniflers If ge fhould be made they would leave it to be aniwered by the Britifh It obferved what is to be the appli cation of this force My reply to if it can be done with Jionfur and and if to in a condition to meet end attack the enemies forces wherever they are to be tret This is the animut with which it fs m to be to as I faid with lecuriry and if otherwife to be enabled to meet and attack any with out any apprehet fions as 10 vt hatever may be ihe Let me what would be the practical refult of futtaining the Right Gentlemans propofitiun in my he uted many ftrong arguments in favour of ihe The expediency of the propofition is evinced in prefem Rate of the When I mentioned a PeacS Eftab lilhmentof I did fo in a qualified thinking a great redueMirvn neceflary but Unable to forefes how is not the Peace and V will that the amount of that Eltablifhment in a great meafure be and depend upon the dif pofiriou manifeficd in fupport of the prefent In what L have already 1 conceive my felf to have given afufficient anfwer with refpeifl to the grounds upon which the If we compare the nunibets voted in th various years of Peace fince hall ind fevewl ol in proportion 10 the varying afpecls ot the number of Seamen was not than what is required at The reafon which makes me molt anxious for the adoption of this iweaiure becaule I think it affords the furefl profpecl of preserving and Ihould we be difappointed in we be prepared to meet any pofiible emergency if any fudden vi as not be indifferent to the of reducing fuch a number of men to the degree of poverty that if more hia not been done for thefe it was becaqfe the public hM not provided the In his it was perfectly proper to putnber of men now propofed frf the Nmy4 of even a larger num becaufe if d many trien Were to be difrnifTed without any kind of provifion h was to be apprehended that they might Peek though with from IPoreign States HecouId not but deprecate what had fallen from the Chancellor of the towards the coh clufion of his with regard to a tuiure re duction of the Navy f on the that if any alteration fhould take it would be to and not to diminifh the number ot men becaufe the ileets of this Country could not be brought into a flate of itocm ihe armies of the One why he was inclined to wifh that a larger number of men might be employed a perfect confidence he in the prefent that whatever force might beentrufled to their it would induce them to enter into a fpeculative War but itwould enable them to hMd fuch high language as would help them to preferve the or at leaft give a longer anda greater chance of prelerving He thought it neceflary that ourNavy fliould be a flnte as that it might be promptly cquipjedfor fervice from the probability of a renewal of hof tiltties in cafe of a fudden change in the Govern ment of another however averfe the Go vernment of that Country might be at prefent from He believed it was the it cmainly was the iniereft of the prefem Government of to preferve Peace t and if we were placed in fituation to be ready to with ef that imtereft would certainly be Wronger But that which had happened before might hap pen again j and it was known that fudden changes Bad place in the Government of France he had himfelf been prefem at two of and he declared that they reiernbled more the fud den changes of fcenery in a theatre than any thing lie had an opportunity of when ehofe great chaoigf s ere that theGaolers were alfo bufily employed in preparing lodgings for additional When they were a Iked horn they they anfwered they did not but that violent difcuffionS were going md might have or they might have ti er they were fure to havefome and they were always fure to be They might not lnnv the who might be committed their but they were Jure to haw fome pnfuners on ihnifhr they expec5tefd the day in tlieu gibbrrifhr thy call the i8th Fruc t dor It was alionifhmg to fee with what eafe and indifference events ot this kind in that country foiward wh bloody daggers in their and declared hty were only the Actors in ihois bin not either Authors or In tlis whole fecmtrd to them n rtiorehan a dramatic Tfprtfentaion they got up whatever tkey th ught mght hit the popular it washe Death of the Fall of or the Mabh of But notice andne ebnftfretffa liftencd with nifhmem to that part of the Chancellor of the Ex chequers fpeech in which he that perfons who optofed thtf ftefolutloh ought the neceffity df propofing a larger or a number of men but that it wainot mcukiient o thofe whu propofed the Motto fc enter into e planations upon the udfefs tailed Captain faid it was very true many had been difcKafrged from tfie Ddck but they were fuch wereeither incapa citated by or who wertdefieiejit ttt o wRo had their Lord HAWKESBURY faid ntd in the fitft hat in pfopofitu a vote Army or it had not been iiitiaf t6 precede motion with oiajiy urging in fupport of it he had thought it he I Iv ir y way That being the s of this Country iri a ftate uf fei infult or inJury be offered we mould 1 I bs in a convliiion immediately to put out a great proportion uf ihat naval hich never ap peared upon the without preforying our re encreafing our exalting our and providing for our folid conclud and a to enjoy the of I that I hrard with regret and Itn his aflcriions rcfpenitE tlie influence of F trance on the Councils of Ruffian Empire I pafs over what he has aitribuied to my Noble Friend Lord Haw kfbury of having that the glorious victory off difficiihies in the way ol the fubfequent Ne ed with that he did not fuppofe there vtould be one difTentient voice upon this and if any Gentleman Ihould be dilpofed to blame I I O I I What he faid that not ithftandj him or entering into a juftification which they deem he hoped they would ex culc him on the ground of the imputations which had been made againft Sir SIDNEY SMITH he fhould not have ing the previous event of the death of the Lmpcror atid all the advantages of that never Excelled in fplendor of ftill th Nego liflfious alluded to experienced many is but endeavouring to replace her damage troubled thr if the queftion then under con byinieafcd building and The fame fixation did not relate particularly to the Profef complnint apply with equal propriety to the i fion to which he had ihe honour to taaval equipments of any other I acknowi were fome observations upon ihis fubjecl which Itdgtf that the mnritime power occurred to which he thought neceflary to HoIUtni under the prefent be fiated upon the prefent occafinn He trufted lie conOrdered as truft that BnVand rh it the Houfe would agree whh him in take vieu them in any other light j hat the Dockyards of the Country fhould be in a Hon Gentlem n is very much miftakeu flue of atfivity readinefi4n cafe of the Navy uf or of any i and they fhould be properly as well J 4 f t W 1 when they waned to jleafr took ut of their flock an old called the Invafion ot which was always fure to Thefe things had their and out of of by thefe be perfuaded to volunteer in an Invafion of this they might give us a great deal of trou though they could if our Navy was in a ftate of He confefled he fhould not en f train any thing like the fame apprehenfixms of if fhe was confined w ithin her ancient li and for this plain for rnvafion in any of the Ports of Fiance muft be ex tremely particularly in any o the Ports oppofite to the Southern Coafi of on ac count of the fmallnefs of the and the want of a fufficient depth He had had an from being flawned a considerable time upon the Coaft of to make accurate obfervaiions upon their and he was enabled to cajculaie with certainty that the greater number of veffete that could leave any of thefe harbours at one time was and that could only be done by the mechanical operation of drawing them out from the pieis even that number could only come from Havre on account of the deph of aater continuing longer in that where what was called the flack tide lafted three But rhis fort of force was not to be dreaded if ourNavy was in a ftate of readinefs they might be deftroyed if they came they might even be deftroyed in the harbours on the French Upon thefs grounds he fhould have little apprehenfion if France was confined within her antient limits but the cafe was extremely dif when in addition to her own poflefled thofe of He did not think much of France poilefiing the fhips of becaufe that would only tend to increafe the Britifh but the poflefiion of her Ports was a fub jecl of ferious Suppofe any fudden change in he Government of ihe death of the Fiffl tDonful by of any of Brutufes who had appeared in that was an event which he not only did not but which hewould prevent if it were in his powerr not from any particular regard to the perfon in qugmjpjoe noopteo tfn would be fecurity oi this jHe rivcry Gentleman by thrir llvat a Nfcvaf and Military Ellabliflfimeht would1 for that purpole fit was t tfue there waVnotjletitfe on that vVarindieed friatiifefted by the fpcedi of an Gentlenfaif hadfwdfn hirclaJm bo interpiet in his the particular to yofed for jihlt he mentioned to fliew tnerd but alfq that fianding in the Houfe jat derflanoing that the Pea be fpt It diftu flated and avowed by hits it was iheit for that purpofei largeJMJljtary an and 0f trie cir ctimftances of thai So hilt tg cqjild not Be rai to anyMeniber in it would rjot b Minifters fliould tail of mnt a motujftfor the Pence He would undertake fo fayy iltat fuch Milne had been be a thing if riot had now fome rn ffenJ upontliat as wellnsFprapacquaintance vvkh fhc previous Kiftory of KatliamenlfcTvpro he would prafticg of that Houfe lecall for an explaeation from Go fucn was now previous to the pulling of flieli a vote jit not only ver been required by the bul Jt had never been required by thofe who were the moft vehe ment oppofersof Hf renieaiberedi a Peace Eflabliflimeht any former onw and a Member wha at that time was in dfrefl appbftiioe to the meafures of delivered himfelf tb llir following efTefS That tf his Miniflers prnpoted the aa a permanent Peace Efla fliould but if there were iiny circumnTTces in the then brte of Enrope that required it for the it liquid have 5eflys Minilters in yet that Was ijcon f deuce which Was all eveiits for the lifety of the fuch indeed as muftbeEepofedr lor momeut in eVery and with t lU hieh it could not He would therefore thai in proposing ihe army or the a point which ncellarily called for the confidence that it was of fair to He it was fair to afk Minifters whethtr ihey propofed the cftablifhment upon heir views of a of upon cir cuniflanccs peculiar to the time in which it was propofed and that lie was already by what tranfpired in that on the fubjefl of his Majeflys and the Addrefs which followed it was not necellary for him to this topic The cirtumftaaces of turopa were ftill uch as reniiertd the force now propofed n the opiniDn of his Mbyeflys Miniiters the Houfe be aware tFahie couul rot enter into the particulars of fuch without danger of moll feiious detriment to the fet He tins not to be under d to ftand on any fecret nny negoiiattnn that might be thought to be Joptnd or on what Government or weie on the ft ite of ftaleii noionly known to the Houfe of but to ety man n this country j and now he might take leave o from Ihisgeneral kiKHvledge f the ftate of it was acretty general opinion of thofe who paid any to that there fliould orought to large IeaciEllahlifhment in this countrvjaad that defirabe as economy at all times peace i generally et that there never was a mo nunt in which lliere was Iefs wifdom in obleiving what is called than the nnd it wotihl not efcape llie the H that nt the of a cbnt0V we aie nut able to put our force in fuch a mpnner as to appear to advantage in the eyesof the or at all to refcmble thofe by which had hitherto been aMe ro terminate wur thJs matter with the was duelo Ihe c our i butlromhisdeteftationof we been li t i i n ri A V I was due V Ihe per that if a eotiieft Oiould be our would be better that we fliould be abW forth our force mete ually at theother Maritime ran in any wayba a partof the force of With re as the It come to his that many menhad bten recenMy difcharged from to it is noiOionfly fla deprived of all and racedin circum infult wis offered to the EnuHfh Flng but of ihe Ihould not he taken a pioof of dttign or ncvolcntdifpouuon ot He knew the be but if any event of that kind were to and it might be thought advifable to invade this Coun the Ports of Holland would afford the means ot fending over an Army to this Country in one nights time he fpoke this from perfonal know becaufe he had failed from England to Hol land in one and he fuppofed the pafTage might be effected from Holland in the fame It was for thefe reafons that he wifhed our Navy to be STURGESS agreed with the Right Gentleman that the Houfe was never before placed in fuch a fit nation they were never before called upon to vote fuch a number of ia time of witfeQiit explanation or IIUIII m t point of he doubted whether was corn monly called would be to vantage of this Tinre were other re fons applicable tollufinle of both our Army and which requirrd in lo be larger than they had ever been m Deuce and were reafons peace mit the queflion of applied poflible troubte ard expence of event ol hoftilitiw becoming unavoidaole upon any viewof the it that our Peace Eftablilliment Qiould I had But whatever might t prchenfiomof fome Gentlemen on w ihtv muft admit the
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